Episode 1

full
Published on:

28th Feb 2025

Episode one: The obituary

Here's the version of the obituary that went viral on TikTok.

And here's the original obituary that Meagan published on Facebook

What happens when your mother is a brilliant, unstoppable con artist, and you spend your childhood moving from one wild scheme to the next?

In Forever Wild, sisters Meagan McGovern and Nora Gibbs share the unbelievable true story of growing up with Maureen—a woman who could charm anyone, outrun the law, and spin the world into her own creation. From a mafia-run bar to a house full of strangers, from the high-stakes lights of a game show to an escape across the world, their childhood was anything but ordinary.

But Forever Wild is more than just a wild ride. It’s a story of resilience, survival, and the bonds that hold us together when everything else falls apart. Told with dark humor, deep reflection, and the kind of sibling banter that only comes from surviving chaos together, this eight-episode podcast is a gripping, emotional journey through the past—and a reckoning with what remains.

Transcript
Meagan McGovern:

Hi, and welcome to the very first episode of Forever

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Wild, Stories from the McGovern Girls.

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I'm Megan McGovern.

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Nora Gibbs: And I'm Nora

McGovern Gibbs, or Nora Gibbs.

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I used to be Nora McGovern.

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In the first episode, we're going to

unpack the remarkable chaotic life

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of our mother, Maureen McGovern.

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Meagan McGovern: You don't really

get to ever be an ex McGovern.

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Sorry, you're stuck with it.

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Today's episode is all about

our mother, Maureen's obituary.

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It's an obituary that went viral on

TikTok last year, and if you've read

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it or seen it online, you'll know why.

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If you haven't read it, buckle up.

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And it went viral because it's not your

typical beloved mother and wife obituary.

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It's raw, colorful, and

messy, just like she was.

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Nora Gibbs: We changed the

way we're doing this for you.

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We originally tried this where we read the

obituary as it was, and it just wasn't us.

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It didn't sound like us.

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It wasn't the way we wanted to

portray our mother's obituary.

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It just, it didn't work for us.

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So, we're going to post the original

obituary for you on our socials once

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we figure out how to get that done.

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Meagan McGovern: So what we're going to do

is we're going to talk about my mother's

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obituary and her life, and, you know,

kind of discuss what happened with it.

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And so here we go.

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Nora, go for it.

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Nora Gibbs: All right.

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So Maureen Alice Smith, our mother,

nd,:

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in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.

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She was the oldest child of

Bernard Smith and Eva Golombeski,

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and they both dote on her.

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She and her three younger siblings

were raised on Staten Island.

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Her parents were from the Adirondacks

in upstate New York, and she spent

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summers picking wild blueberries

and taking baths in a big iron tub

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in her grandmother's living room.

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The motto for the Adirondacks is

Forever Wild, and that's one of the

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reasons we chose this for When she

was in high school, she had her first

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baby that she gave up for adoption.

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After being sent away to a home for

unwed mothers, which was run by nuns,

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her first son was named Christopher.

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She went to Hunter College, and

then to Wagner, and then to a

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college in San Francisco, but she

did not manage to graduate from it.

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Meagan McGovern: And that background

on my mother, just that she was

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a nice Catholic girl raised in

Staten Island by a nice family, her

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mother Eva was a Polish Lithuanian

immigrant, her Father, Bernard Smith.

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They came from a mining family in the

Adirondacks, they were stout, Catholic

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people who had been hard living in

the Adirondacks for a long time.

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It's cold up there, but this doesn't

kind of, they became solidly middle

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class and it doesn't give any indication

of what's going to happen to her

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later or where she's going to go.

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When we grew up, what we knew

about my mother was that She

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was somebody you wanted to be

friends with when she was young.

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Everybody said she was

stunningly beautiful.

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She was five foot ten.

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She had huge boobs.

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That was one of the first

thing anybody said about her.

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Nora Gibbs: Like me.

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Meagan McGovern: What?

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Nora Gibbs: Like me.

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Meagan McGovern: Yeah, exactly.

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She was stacked.

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And they said she was brilliant.

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She was witty.

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She was the kind of

friend you keep for life.

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She was a writer, for Women's

Wear Daily, and she worked at

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the New York Herald Tribune.

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She interviewed celebrities, and

I used to think it was a big deal.

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She would show me clippings of the

newspaper articles she wrote in the 60s,

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and I didn't know who John Gielgud was.

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I didn't know who Rex Harrison was, but

I knew they were famous at the time, and

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she talked about how famous they were, and

she would give me a lot of, tips on how to

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go out there and do things that are hard.

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It's hard to go interview celebrities.

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So it was, we knew who she was when

she was young, and that she had

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been somebody cool, to be a reporter

in:

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And to be a woman is a big deal.

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One of our favorite things was that,

she took my Aunt Nora to a Beatles

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concert at Shea Stadium in 1965.

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On August 15th, my mom was one of the

reporters interviewing the Beatles

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and she said they kept pointing

to her in the back of the press

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conference and said, Yes, that blonde

in the back of the room, that one.

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We'll take the question from her.

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And of course, my Aunt Nora, who was

only 13 at the time, thought that

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was the biggest deal of all time.

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And my mom, had an apartment at number

2 Jane Street in Greenwich Village.

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This is kind of like the stuff

of our, childhood stories.

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Our childhood.

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Yeah.

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These are our legends.

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The stories that my mother told

about her youth in New York.

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That she had parties that people

were, she still told stories about.

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That, you know, she said that there

was a captain of a Navy ship who

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showed up in her, living room.

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They had looking for members of his crew

because he'd been missing for two days

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and she's like, I don't know where he is.

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And they found him asleep

behind one of the sofas.

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And there's no way of

knowing whether that's true.

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You never knew whether any of

her stories were true or how

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hard they'd been stretched.

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Nora Gibbs: It's funny you say that

because you hear these stories and you

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think there's no way that that happens.

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And then you meet someone who

knew her and they tell a story.

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Not only did that happen, but

this also happened on top of it.

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So it's, it's funny how that works.

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Meagan McGovern: Well, yeah, and you

meet people who you would expect had

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nothing to do with your mother and

somebody would say oh my god You're

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Maureen's daughter and you will hear

stories and you never know whether

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they're going to be about the bad things

or the good things She ruined my life.

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She saved my life.

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It's kind of even odds

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Nora Gibbs: So a number of things

happened to my mother in this time frame

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or just after you know, 1965 She had two

more babies a daughter that she named

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Ann Margret and a son that she named

David and they were both given up for

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adoption One of them had a father that

my mom used to say was nicknamed Mr.

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Irresponsible.

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And the other was a man that she met on

a beach the day that Marilyn Monroe died.

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She always said when she told us that,

and we didn't find this out till much

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later in life, that everybody was

so upset about Marilyn Monroe dying

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that she was looking for comfort.

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So she had a liaison

with a man on the beach

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I don't know if it was on the beach.

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I don't like to think about that.

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But she met the man on the beach

and she ended up pregnant by him.

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And then, you know, years later, she

wanted to connect with the children.

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She never stopped thinking about

them, and the records were sealed.

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And this is for a later podcast.

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Meagan McGovern: The stories

that my mother tells, like the

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story about Marilyn Monroe dying.

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She said she was on a beach,

but she was always very specific

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about a beach outside of New York.

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And she said everybody was hanging out.

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It was a beautiful afternoon.

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It was sunny, and it was hot.

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And everybody was listening to the

radio and in the water, and she said

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it was one of these weird moments

where everybody just went silent.

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And a hush fell over the entire thing.

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And all you could hear was

the sound of the radio.

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Because on the news, the radio was

reporting Marilyn Monroe's death.

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And that everybody just went

completely quiet and listened,

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and there was nothing else.

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And those are the kind of stories

and details that she told you that

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just really imprinted in your brain.

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She was an excellent storyteller.

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Nora Gibbs: For sure.

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Meagan McGovern: And.

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So at some point after all of this

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Nora Gibbs: my favorite story,

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Meagan McGovern: Yeah my mother Maureen

Smith met Donald McGovern and She met him

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in either the Lion's Head or the 55 on

Christopher Street in the village And we

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know this because you know, these were

the stories she told well The village was

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in the most important place in the 1960s

and this is where the beatniks were and

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this is where you know, my father used

to hang out with Allen Ginsberg and those

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were the two bars that were the cool bars

and she met him there but he was married

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and he had a three year old son and so

my father was not a good candidate for

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a boyfriend, but my mother didn't care

and She said that when she met him She

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was with a friend of hers and she saw him

getting out of a cab across the street

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Yeah,

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Meagan McGovern: and he

was wearing a tuxedo.

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He had come back from some gig.

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He loved to wear tuxedos and

beautiful clothes And she said to her

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friend, he's beautiful, he's mine.

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And when she walked in, she danced

with him and she saw, walked up

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to him and she said, I'm crazy

about you and I'm gonna marry you.

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And he said, lady, you don't even know me.

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She said, I don't care.

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That doesn't matter.

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And that was it.

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They were together from that

point on, and so many lives

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were changed because of that.

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It was just one of those moments.

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And they ended up running a bar together.

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Neither one of them was.

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It's a person who should

run a bar, but they did.

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They ran a bar together in the East

Village called the Corner Bistro.

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Anyway, so the bar, like they start,

this is the kind of thing they did.

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They started off the bar as a theater bar.

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My father used to work in, the theater

there it was just the place for people

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to hang out after the theater, and

a place for actors, and a place for

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people behind the scenes, and for

directors, and it was a cool place to be.

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But they ran out of money, and they

borrowed money from the mafia to keep the

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bar going, and then it became a mafia bar.

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It was just kind of a disaster.

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And they of course couldn't afford to pay

off the loans that they made to the Mafia.

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There was a credit card scheme involved.

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And my father ended up getting

stabbed in the kidneys by the Mafia.

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And they left.

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They just decided it wasn't for them.

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And they went to California.

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And they left behind my father's

first wife and my father's son.

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And all of their families.

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And they just never went back.

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Nora Gibbs: It's funny, my dad

used to tell a story about being

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stabbed in the kidneys that time,

that he said they'd taken him into

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the bathroom and they'd stabbed him

and he thought he was going to die.

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He thought, this is it, I'm dead.

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And a bum knocked on the door of the

bathroom, and he was so adamant that he'd

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get in the bathroom that the guys who

had stabbed him stopped stabbing him.

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And that's how he lived.

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He said, he used to say

a bum saved my life.

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So after, they left for California,

Don and Maureen had four girls in six

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years and they finally got married

in:

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They had settled into what was a

normal life for them for about 10 years

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and they had a farm in California.

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You know, in the desert, out in Little

Rock, where my dad worked for KTTV, and

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he wanted to be an actor, but, he was

also a gentleman farmer, and when my mom,

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you know, when we were little, she was a

very involved, loving mother, she loved

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to bake, she loved to make soups, like

that was her big thing, soups, and she

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taught us all how to cook, and, no one can

roast a potato or a chicken like this, so.

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You know, we used to go to museums,

we used to go to parks, and all

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the road trips, and we would

look at stars out on the patio.

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We sang songs in the car, you know,

mostly Willie Nelson and John Denver.

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And she used to tell us about the

olden days in the Adirondacks.

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And it was just story after story

of how magical the Adirondacks were.

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And, you know, when the holidays

came around, she would sing

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Christmas carols in Latin.

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And I can still sing Adeste Fidelis in

Latin, much to my children's excitement.

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She loved Marvin Gaye, and we

would sing along on the radio, and

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it was just, I have fond memories

of being in a car with my mom.

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Meagan McGovern: After,

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I don't know how good things

were, how good things weren't.

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It seemed good to us, it

seemed like a normal life.

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But, finally, my father had enough,

and there was a kind of a mess, but,

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my father left, and my mom packed us

up, and things just Went whirlwind

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into chaos into like the meat of what's

going on here that it never ended.

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She gave up all pretense at

being law abiding or normal or

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an upstanding wife and citizen.

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And from that point on, from about

September of:

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she did whatever the hell she wanted

and she did whatever she pleased and

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she did not listen to anybody's advice.

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And with all four of us, she moved

up to Lake Luzerne, New York, near

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the Adirondacks, for three months.

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And she, we only lasted three

months until the first winter.

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And in the middle of that first

winter, she burned down the

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house for the insurance check.

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And then we fled.

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And we went to Houston.

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And then four or five houses in Houston.

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Then four or five houses in Los Angeles.

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Then, two different places in Oregon,

and then back to California, and

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then back to New York, and then to

Connecticut, and then upstate New

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York, and then I don't even know where

South Carolina and the Bahamas, and

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Nora Gibbs: I feel like after

upstate New York for the last time

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is kind of where we all split off.

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Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

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It all just went everywhere from there.

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I don't even know what happened, but

up until that point at least, all

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four of us were along for the ride.

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Nora Gibbs: We were together.

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We were always there

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Meagan McGovern: and we

were a close knit family.

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I mean, whether it was happy or

not was a whole different ballgame.

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And I don't even know if we were unhappy.

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I

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Nora Gibbs: had a happy childhood.

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I know that people think, are you insane?

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How did you enjoy this?

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But for me, I mean, I was with my sisters.

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I was with my mom who loved me and we

always had animals and we had fun houses.

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We lived in beautiful places,

you know, near rivers in Oregon

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and we would jump in the river.

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I mean, I had fun.

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I know it's not conventional, but I

personally had a wonderful childhood.

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I don't know about you.

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Meagan McGovern: Yeah, that's

because you weren't the oldest

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taking care of all three of you.

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You were along for the ride.

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I was along for

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Nora Gibbs: the ride.

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I was like, let's go.

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Meagan McGovern: I was the

one making breakfast for you.

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So, I didn't have a terrible

childhood, actually.

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I read a lot.

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I enjoyed my childhood.

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It wasn't bad.

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It just wasn't normal.

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There were a lot of things that I would

change if I could change, but I don't

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think by any stretch that I was abused.

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Maybe neglected, but not abused.

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Nora Gibbs: All right.

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So, you know, along the way on

this journey, my mom was, she

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was very kind and she took in

children that had no place to go.

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She fed countless teenagers.

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She offered our home to anybody

who needed a place to stay.

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And she was a big champion of

liberal causes and ideas, and she

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read voraciously, and she made

certain that no one she knew would

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have ever voted for a Republican.

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I will say she would have loved

this current political climate.

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Sorry, that's for another podcast.

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You know, we all knew that we had

the coolest mom and the coolest

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houses in the neighborhood, and if

anybody was ever hungry or bored or,

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was going through a difficult time.

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Our house was the place to be.

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We were a safe house for a lot of people

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Meagan McGovern: in

the middle of all this.

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There was a period of about two

years, which happily coincided with

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the time that I was in high school.

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So I kind of got a good high school

experience because of this:

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My mom had some money

and she had some peace.

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We all did because She went

on a game show called sale of

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the century and we're in Los

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Angeles at this

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Meagan McGovern: time.

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Yeah, we were in LA and she won 58,

000 as a champion, which I'm telling

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you in 1980, that was a gear salary.

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I mean, that was like the equivalent

of like 120, 000 or 150, 000 today.

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I'm just guessing, but

it was a lot of money.

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It was enough that you couldn't

really buy a house with it

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outright, but you could live.

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You could get on your feet.

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You could buy a car.

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You could do a down payment on a house.

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If you had a job, you could actually

create a good life for yourself out of it.

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And my mother was not the kind of person

who could do that and have a stable life.

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But it was amazing.

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It was a game of trivia and knowledge.

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This was her thing.

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She was very, very good at it.

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And, she actually went on and

became the grand champion.

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And she competed in Australia.

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And when she was in Australia,

she swindled all of the other

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competitors out of their wallets.

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She took out rental cars in their names.

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She ran from the police for six weeks

and she had, my two youngest sisters,

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Nora and Morgan with her at this point.

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It was, it was a lot.

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Nora Gibbs: So before we get into that

whole thing, I did just Google it and

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$58,000 a 1984 is the equivalent of

$176,000 a bank, which is a shitload of

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money for a single mother in Los Angeles.

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Meagan McGovern: It is,

it's, I mean, you can't.

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It's not enough to go buy a house,

then you have nothing to live on, ever.

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You can't just go buy a house outright.

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But it's enough to have a down payment

on a house and money for a couple of

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years while you figure out an income.

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And it's certainly enough to, if you

just want to rent, you could just rent

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a house for 10 years with that money.

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It's a lot of money.

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Nora Gibbs: So, we're in Australia now.

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And I was one of the two children

that my mom took with her.

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They had given her a business class

ticket to Australia from New York and she

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cashed it in and got three coach tickets.

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So myself and my older sister, Morgan

and I went with my mom to Australia

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and we were there for about six weeks

and it was, I mean we had a great time

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and three quarters of the way through,

we realized that, Hey, there's no

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money, where's the money coming from?

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We'll dive deeper into how the whole

Australia thing went down, but yeah,

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it was a chaotic couple of weeks or

a couple of months, but so between

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1980 and 2010, my mom, you know, she

had been arrested all over the place.

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I mean, she was arrested in London,

Paris, Vermont, Texas, South

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Carolina, Kentucky, New Hampshire,

Florida, California, and New York.

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Meagan McGovern: Did we

live out the Bahamas?

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And The Bahamas . Yeah,

I was thinking that this

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Nora Gibbs: is kind of like hand

in hand with the Florida trip.

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Like she was arrested in The

Bahamas, or I guess I didn't,

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Meagan McGovern: I wasn't there

for that, so I don't know.

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She wasn't

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Nora Gibbs: actually arrested in The

Bahamas, but she was arrested in Florida

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and that's another whole episode of how

Morgan and I were involved in that whole.

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But you know, she was really good.

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She was arrested a lot, but she

was released a lot, , you know,

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she was released because she

could talk her way out of anything

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and she could talk her way.

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You know, out of a lot of the jail time

by justifying what she had done, and

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she was able to justify what she did,

and, you know, while she did serve time

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in both federal and local prisons, in

my opinion, she didn't serve as much

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time as she probably should have, but

when she was in jail, and I know that

366

:

sounds awful, but she did, you know, she,

she hurt a lot of people financially.

367

:

When she was in prison, she would send us

these pictures and these envelopes filled

368

:

with pictures of flowers and, Letters and

poems that she wrote on scraps of paper,

369

:

and she would, complain about the food

and the guards, and there was absolutely

370

:

not a morsel of remorse in anything

that she'd ever written to me, anyway.

371

:

And she considered that stealing

from insurance companies and

372

:

defrauding people and writing bad

checks was really a victimless crime.

373

:

She would say, it's just money, it's

not like I'm hurting anyone, and they're

374

:

all insured, they'll get it back.

375

:

That was my big thing, that I always heard

from her, it's fine, they're insured.

376

:

So,

377

:

Meagan McGovern: I mean, we'll get into

all of the things that she did, but in

378

:

the obituary, I just came out with it.

379

:

She wrecked cars for the insurance money.

380

:

She stole things out of purses.

381

:

She ran a credit card

scheme with houses for sale.

382

:

They actually went and filmed an episode

about her for America's Most Wanted.

383

:

But Nora will tell you this at another

point, it was never aired and the

384

:

sheriff that got an interview in it was

really mad that it never aired because

385

:

he didn't get his 15 minutes of fame.

386

:

Nora Gibbs: He did, however, come into

the bar where I was working in South

387

:

Carolina and talk to me about it.

388

:

So that was a really

fun experience for me.

389

:

Meagan McGovern: She was in and

out of mental hospitals a lot, and

390

:

sometimes it was because she was

mentally ill, and sometimes it was

391

:

because it would get her out of jail.

392

:

And then she finally found a few

years of peace when she remarried

393

:

our father, which was just something.

394

:

That was in 2004.

395

:

And my father had been through A Russian

bride by that point who had divorced him

396

:

and, you know, she was kind of a mail

order bride that took him for all his

397

:

money and he had a live in girlfriend

that was kind of awful my mom just went

398

:

up to the house and threw her out, and,

they managed to have a couple years

399

:

together in a cabin in Conway, Arkansas.

400

:

I don't even know how they ended up there.

401

:

And they wrote bad checks?

402

:

Nora Gibbs: They ended up there

because it was affordable, and

403

:

they wanted a place where they

could sit by a lake and read books.

404

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah, and not have to,

yeah, they lived on my dad's pension,

405

:

they wrote bad checks, they watched

TV, they grew tomatoes, and then my

406

:

dad died, and she was untethered again.

407

:

She was, there was nothing to keep her,

keep her down, keep her in one place.

408

:

She spent the last three years of

her life running, and she went from

409

:

Arkansas to San Diego and back.

410

:

And finally, in 2017, she found

some sort of peace, according to

411

:

the priest who performed last rites.

412

:

I hope he's right.

413

:

Nora Gibbs: My mom will be

remembered for a lot of things.

414

:

We remember her foreword, her sharp wit,

her biting wit, her love of good food.

415

:

Great writing, her fantastic conversation.

416

:

She could talk to anybody.

417

:

She had a comprehensive knowledge

of British mystery novels.

418

:

She has stunning ability to cook great

meals with no money and no ingredients.

419

:

She had a flair for woody comebacks

and a love for her children that

420

:

unfortunately she was unable to translate

into protection or a home for us.

421

:

She also had an absolutely unmatched

ability to manipulate any system, a

422

:

mean streak that could catch the bone.

423

:

She had a penchant for nerve pills.

424

:

There's a deep sadness that this

brilliant, vibrant woman was never able to

425

:

rise above the demons that controlled her.

426

:

It's very, heartbreaking.

427

:

And my mom's philosophy, she

always used to say, was a little

428

:

bit full of laughter, woohoo.

429

:

And her theme song was always,

by the Rolling Stones, I

430

:

can't get no satisfaction.

431

:

And she used to say that she wanted

the words, she wept on her headstone,

432

:

complete with a weeping below.

433

:

Meagan McGovern: And, you know, this

was a hard piece to write, but we kind

434

:

of, You know, we decided at the end

not to do she wept on her headstone.

435

:

I mean talk about melodramatic we're

not doing that and we just decided

436

:

that it was just too much and Too over

the top and I didn't want her to be

437

:

remembered as somebody who was just

Sad and weeping because that wasn't

438

:

who she was and I didn't want that

to be who she was And so we ended up

439

:

with forever wild on her headstone.

440

:

Although we did do the weeping willow and

441

:

It was beautiful

442

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah, I think forever

wild is, is way more what she wanted for

443

:

us and what we wanted for her that we

want, I like the idea of forever wild

444

:

and that she was untamed, undisciplined,

445

:

Nora Gibbs: you know, that's kind

of what she wanted for her children.

446

:

Also, you know, she was my sister.

447

:

Morgan always says

conformity is for suckers.

448

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah, exactly.

449

:

Nora Gibbs: That was kind

of my mom's, mantra as well.

450

:

So, backing up a little bit, the obituary

was originally written while I was in

451

:

Arkansas with my sister Katie and I

had taken over as my mom's guardian,

452

:

on paper anyway, from Texas while she

was living in Arkansas and I received

453

:

a phone call from one of the helpers in

her facility that, if I wanted to say

454

:

goodbye to her, I had to come quick.

455

:

I flew out there the next day, Katie

came a day later, and, I was there

456

:

for a couple of days with her and I

was there alone with her and with the

457

:

priest when he read her last rites and

it was heartbreaking and it was hopeful.

458

:

I had a lot of hope because she did

grow up in the Catholic church and it

459

:

meant a lot to her that there was a

priest there that did this for her.

460

:

But, you know, it's funny when I

showed up there, I was wearing.

461

:

It was in August, and I was wearing a

gray t shirt, like a dark gray t shirt,

462

:

it was my favorite t shirt, and she's

very casual, and I leaned over her bed,

463

:

and I said, hey mama, I'm here, and

um, I'm gonna cry, and she looked up at

464

:

me, and she looked at my shirt, and she

said, she was very weak, and she said,

465

:

Nora,

466

:

Nora Gibbs: don't ever wear that

color again, it's awful on you.

467

:

And that's the first thing she said to

me after I had flown from Houston with

468

:

a connecting flight on a tiny little

plane and, stopped my whole life with

469

:

my small children to be there for,

it's just such a funny thing to say.

470

:

Meagan McGovern: I could have been

at my mother's side when she died,

471

:

and I had at that point, made.

472

:

Some kind of peace with my mother at

least on my end and I couldn't do it But

473

:

Nora and I talked and we said, you know,

we need you write something about this.

474

:

That's what I do when I'm sad That's

what I do when I'm overwhelmed.

475

:

I start writing.

476

:

So I wrote and so I wrote this obituary

and I Sent it to Nora when she was

477

:

there and of course, it's terrible

when your mother dies No matter who

478

:

you are no matter where you are in

the world when your mother dies It's

479

:

one of the worst days of your life.

480

:

But when She's complicated when you

have a bad relationship with her when

481

:

she's yelling at you for what you look

like on the day she's dying things are

482

:

complicated and hard and So I sent this

to Nora and I kind of got the nod from

483

:

her the reaction from her We've gone

back and forth in which right when I

484

:

sent her like the first draft She told

me tell her what you tell me what you

485

:

thought of the whole thing and all that

486

:

Nora Gibbs: So, you know the first

time I read it I was with Katie and

487

:

Katie was asleep and we were in a

super cheap hotel room Conway, Arkansas

488

:

or outside of Arkansas somewhere.

489

:

And I read the first version of it

and it was really raw and it was very

490

:

truthful but very emotional, right?

491

:

And I started crying and I was

weeping and I, it was like one

492

:

of those guttural sobbings that

that's very cleansing for you also.

493

:

But it was heavy, but you know,

being my mom's daughter was heavy.

494

:

It was a hard thing to do.

495

:

So Meg and I went back and forth.

496

:

On what to include in the

obituary and what to leave out.

497

:

And there were a few versions of

it where it was kind of cleaned up

498

:

a little bit and made it a little

nicer and not everything was in it.

499

:

And then we both at the end were

just like, you know what, fuck it.

500

:

Just do it.

501

:

Just put it all in there.

502

:

Include it all.

503

:

And we knew it was going to ruffle

some feathers in the family.

504

:

Meagan McGovern: I don't think we were

505

:

Nora Gibbs: That wasn't our intention.

506

:

Meagan McGovern: It was not the

intention to ruffle feathers.

507

:

It was the intention to I don't

even know what the intention was.

508

:

The intention was to I think we were both

so angry at the same time that we were

509

:

relieved that we just wanted to Put it

out there and get it behind us and be done

510

:

with my mother because this had been years

of pain and it ended up hurting a lot of

511

:

people that we didn't intend to hurt and

we had no, everybody's hurt at funerals.

512

:

That's one of the things

that I've learned badly.

513

:

And I should have known this years ago.

514

:

But no matter what you do or

say at a funeral, it's the

515

:

wrong thing to do or say.

516

:

And everybody thinks that they

have the corner on how to talk

517

:

about the person that died.

518

:

And that they have the right

view of the person that died.

519

:

But, we had a lot of people coming up

to us that we love, some of my favorite

520

:

people in the world who I would never

want to hurt, saying, how dare you?

521

:

I am so angry, I'm really speaking to you.

522

:

This is the person that should be,

we should be comforting each other

523

:

and holding each other after my

mother died, and instead they're

524

:

like, I don't want anything to do

with you, how could you put that?

525

:

And, you and I were stunned by that,

we didn't expect that, that had

526

:

never been a reaction by anybody

we loved ever about anything.

527

:

Nora Gibbs: Nobody had

ever been mad at us.

528

:

It's for, okay, obviously this is

something that I had never been done

529

:

before where we had talked so openly

about our mother on a public forum

530

:

and, it was posted to Facebook and it

got picked up really quick by a lot of

531

:

people and a lot of people read it and

within hours I received emails and phone

532

:

calls from people again that we love

and adore and would never want to hurt.

533

:

And the big question was.

534

:

Why in the hell would you do that?

535

:

Why would you share an intimate story

of their sister, their aunt, their

536

:

second cousin, their friend and at the

end of the day she was our mother and

537

:

my goal, not my goal, my reasoning for

sharing it was these are all, everything

538

:

in the obituary were something that

made her who she was and because of

539

:

who she was, it affected who I was.

540

:

End.

541

:

I'm a big believer that where you

came from does affect where you're

542

:

going and you know it's it's a hard

thing to talk about but I wanted to

543

:

let people know and you wanted to let

people know that this was our mom.

544

:

Meagan McGovern: Think

545

:

Nora Gibbs: this

546

:

Yeah, I mean, I think this

is a story worth telling.

547

:

I think there are a lot of, you know,

certainly lessons you can get out of this,

548

:

certainly lessons we've learned out of

it, and, one of the things, I, Noram, I

549

:

like to joke about, it's kind of funny,

is, you know, once it went, this lady

550

:

who reads obituaries on TikTok, she finds

interesting obituaries and reads them.

551

:

And she read this one, and she

read it out loud about, it's

552

:

a condensed version of it.

553

:

And it got like three

million views or something.

554

:

And it was very weird and

raw, to see somebody else

555

:

using my words and our story.

556

:

Oh, this was like six or seven years

after mom died that that came out,

557

:

and it was something like, why is

she making money off my mother's

558

:

story, first of all, and you know,

why are people responding to this?

559

:

But then we started laughing.

560

:

We were like, My mom would

be so pissed off that she's

561

:

not making money off of this.

562

:

Like, it's what would she do

if she knew it went viral?

563

:

She'd be like, where's my cut?

564

:

How do I get royalties out of this?

565

:

Where's my agent?

566

:

And, she would probably even add more

life, more details about it and say,

567

:

wait a minute, you got that story wrong.

568

:

Let me tell you about this story.

569

:

If you think that's something,

and also, you know, what's my cut.

570

:

Nora Gibbs: Well, it's interesting

to me, and you know, a lot of people

571

:

Knowing that we're doing a podcast and

talking about the podcast and why now?

572

:

Well, a lot of it is because that did go

viral and I did a deep dive on TikTok,

573

:

like looking at the comments on it.

574

:

And I thought the comments on

it were so interesting because

575

:

there were very few people that

thought, God, she's such an asshole.

576

:

Why would anybody want to

be friends with this person?

577

:

99 percent of the people on TikTok,

and yes, I know I sound like an idiot

578

:

when I say that, the TikTokers say, but

A lot, the majority of the people on

579

:

responding to, obituary were talking

about what an incredible life she had

580

:

and what an incredible reaction her

daughter had to be able to see who my

581

:

mom was with her words in this obituary.

582

:

And what you have written about

mom really resonated with a lot

583

:

of people and did her justice.

584

:

And it, it was a beautiful

story of a girl who had.

585

:

Some tough things happened to

her when she was little and never

586

:

really dealt with them properly.

587

:

And obviously there's a lot to

dive into it later as we progress

588

:

on this, as far as, what happened

to mom when she was little and how

589

:

it affected her moving forward.

590

:

Anyway, for me, the reaction to the

TikTok kind of prompted me to push

591

:

you to do this podcast because I think

that the stories are worth telling.

592

:

I think there's a lot of hope and

inspiration in the way that mom, you

593

:

know, grew up and the way that we

grew up and how we're both pretty,

594

:

I think, pretty incredible people

giving our backgrounds all this.

595

:

Well, I mean.

596

:

I always think of myself as somebody

who is a hot mess and not inspirational

597

:

to anybody, although you are,

I'm sure, an inspiration to many.

598

:

I try to be, you know,

honestly, it is what it is.

599

:

I mean, I agree with you, though.

600

:

I do think people, this

resonates with a lot of people.

601

:

And the other thing I want to say, and

I think we need to kind of wrap this

602

:

up, but I can, uh, with retrospect.

603

:

And with hindsight, obviously, we would

have waited longer for this to have the

604

:

obituary come out, and I think anybody

who has grown up or lived with or loved

605

:

somebody who is addicted or somebody who

has mental illness or somebody who is

606

:

just difficult, understands that better.

607

:

You never have any peace.

608

:

You can't ever turn off your phone.

609

:

You can't go anywhere or do anything

without wondering if that person is

610

:

going to be able to get a hold of you,

if they're going to need you, if the

611

:

cops are going to call, if at 2 a.

612

:

m.

613

:

you're going to get that phone call.

614

:

And I never had any peace

while my mother was alive.

615

:

And I think that the people

in her family who We're upset.

616

:

We're upset because for the first

time in years and years and years for

617

:

them for the first time in their life,

they were going to get that piece.

618

:

They were going to get a minute where

there were no phone calls and no,

619

:

no one was afraid of what was going

to happen and no one was going to

620

:

call and say, What about Maureen?

621

:

And then we published the obituary

and then they got phone calls saying,

622

:

what are we going to do about Maureen?

623

:

Meagan McGovern: Ha ha ha

624

:

Nora Gibbs: ha ha.

625

:

We, we screwed up their plans for peace.

626

:

Hardcore.

627

:

And for those listening who

were affected by this, obviously

628

:

we adore you and are sorry.

629

:

It's not our intention.

630

:

No, and I mean, I don't think it's

something to laugh about, but also it

631

:

was honestly We did not believe, first of

all, that they would even ever read this.

632

:

I didn't think anybody ever read

my It was just a Facebook post.

633

:

Yeah, I mean it wasn't written for

people to, like, take so seriously.

634

:

It was just, I think a lot

of it was, it was closure.

635

:

It was, you know, I think Well,

anybody who wanted closure is

636

:

kind of screwed because we're

still talking about it, you know?

637

:

So, I don't know, man.

638

:

Yeah, we got the opposite out

of that, that we're looking for.

639

:

But anyway, thank you all for joining us.

640

:

I think this wraps up the

first episode of Forever Wild.

641

:

We hope you like this and you'll

be looking forward to more and we

642

:

will have another episode next week.

643

:

Nora, what are we gonna do next week?

644

:

So next time on Forever Wild, we're gonna

talk about some of our mom's scams, but

645

:

she wouldn't have called them scams.

646

:

She would have said that

they were the grand plans.

647

:

We'd love to hear feedback and comments

plus ideas that you'd like to hear about.

648

:

If we've touched on anything today that

resonated with you and you think you'd

649

:

like us to expand upon, let us know.

650

:

And of course, for those of you who knew

our mom, please let us know your stories.

651

:

We'd love to share your stories.

652

:

And we'd love to hear what the

McGovern girls look like to

653

:

be outside to a normal family.

654

:

I don't know if I want

to hear that or not.

655

:

I do.

656

:

I'd like to hear it.

657

:

That's all right.

658

:

We will see you next time.

659

:

Thanks for listening.

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About the Podcast

Forever Wild
Stories from the McGovern Girls
Forever Wild is a memoir podcast about four sisters, a con artist mother, and a childhood spent on the run. From mafia bars to game shows, mental hospitals to Australia, it’s a story of survival, chaos, and the search for home. Hosted by sisters Meagan McGovern and Nora Gibbs, this deeply personal series blends dark humor, nostalgia, and raw honesty in a journey you won’t forget.

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Meagan McGovern