Episode 8

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Published on:

15th Apr 2025

Episode 8: The House with the Peddler's Ghost

Show Notes:

This week on Forever Wild, Meagan and Nora revisit the most beautiful house they ever lived in—and the eerie, chaotic spiral that followed. From a dream colonial home in Fairfield to a carriage house party zone, and then north to a haunted Adirondack property wrapped in a real estate deal their mother that wasn't going to end well.

In this episode, you'll hear:

  • Why Meagan lived in a rat-infested basement
  • The business scheme that might’ve worked -- if the property wasn’t haunted
  • The real reason Meagan never made it to Australia (hint: jail)
  • How four girls from nowhere crashed into small-town Indian Lake and made a big impression

Plus: ghost stories, blueberry pie and whitewater rafting

Like what you're hearing? Leave a review, share with a friend, and send us your questions or memories. We’re saving $150 a week on therapy by doing this podcast instead, so it's good for all of us!

Transcript
Meagan McGovern:

Hi.

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Welcome to Forever Wild, a podcast

about family memory and the

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stories that shape who we become.

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I'm Megan McGovern.

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I'm the oldest of Four Sisters,

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Nora Gibbs: and I'm Nora Gibbs, the one

that's most similar to Martha Stewart.

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Of the four Sisters and the youngest

together we're sharing our journey,

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growing up with an actor father, a

mother who didn't think the rules

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applied to her, at least financially

and a childhood full of chaos,

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adventure, and unforgettable moments.

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Meagan McGovern: Every episode we

tell stories about our childhood and

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we talk about siblings who come from

the same families can see their past

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in very different ways, and how we

carry that forward in our lives today.

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Nora Gibbs: Thank you for joining us.

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This is forever Wild.

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Meagan McGovern: .Okay.

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So one of the things that, um,

in this little catch up thing,

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I've got a question for Nora hit

me, which should be kind of fun.

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We have a friend, well he was my

friend from high school, Chris.

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He was friends with us

from 14 to say 17, 18.

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And we kept in touch.

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He actually ended up getting a PhD

and doing all sorts of cool stuff.

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He lives in California and he's

read a couple drafts of my book

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and I used to visit him a few times

in the eighties and nineties, and

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so he's heard all the stories.

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So he's been listening to the podcast.

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And he wanted to know, he

messaged me last night.

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He listened to the last,

said, this is hard on me.

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So

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Nora Gibbs: I'm really

curious where this is going

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Meagan McGovern: in a loving way.

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He's hard on

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Nora Gibbs: me.

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I love it.

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He's

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Meagan McGovern: hard on both of us.

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He's actually okay.

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He's probably listening.

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I don't care.

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He's kind of a dick.

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And I think that's his persona is I'm

kind of a dick and And that's fine.

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It is what it is.

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He's funny.

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He

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Nora Gibbs: makes me laugh, so it's okay.

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Meagan McGovern: It's, but he

says that we pulled a lot of

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punches on the Ben Stein thing.

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What does that mean?

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And that we didn't, it means that we

didn't go as far as we should have.

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We didn't say everything

bad about Ben Stein.

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We didn't say, look, the guy's

pedophile in a creep and you

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know, he should be in jail.

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And said, we were like, well, these are

the things he did and he wasn't, you

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know, nothing was illegal and it wasn't

that bad and that we should have just

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Nora Gibbs: hit it.

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Well it's funny 'cause I actually went on

Reddit and typed in Ben Stein pedophile.

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And I slightly as you do, and then

I typed in like, and something came

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up about like there was a sexting

scandal with a young girl with him.

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And then there were a couple of things.

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I mean, I wanted to be honest about my

experience with the Ben Spine situation,

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and you can't call someone a pedophile

if they've never touched someone.

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And I've literally talked to

police officers about this.

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Like was there anything,

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Meagan McGovern: okay.

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They call Hillary Clinton a pedophile

and she's never touched someone.

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Well, she's also not, you

can call someone anything.

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She's

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Nora Gibbs: not, you know, he's

not ordering kids like pizza.

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Right.

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Like, I mean, it's not complex.

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Yes.

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Or drinking blood.

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Correct.

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I mean, I kind, I kind of feel like

I went as far with it as I could,

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knowing what I know about him.

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I mean, he never

physically touched anybody.

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I've literally spoken to

police officers about this.

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Like, is there anything you can do to, I.

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Have this guy arrested for being a creep

and they're like, no, he's a creep.

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He never touched anyone.

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He never did anything, you

know, that was illegal.

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So you can't really say, yeah, I

mean, I think I made it pretty clear

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the guy's a creep and he's a piece of

shit person, but I don't know for sure

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that he ever touched any children.

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So I can't go out there and call

this guy a pedophile when for me,

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I associate pedophilia with like

physically molesting children.

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Meagan McGovern: The other thing too,

and I will not, we, I'm going to be very

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light and very circumspect about this, I

told Chris this last night, is that our

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sister Morgan, who was the one who was

um, had pictures taken of her and who

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was, who had met Ben Stein, and it sounds

like he came to the house more often.

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Chris said he remembers Ben Stein

coming to the house a couple times,

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and then our friend Susie said she

babysat for him a couple of times.

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So.

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We must have kept in touch with him.

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It must have been more than once or twice.

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Yeah.

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But our sister Morgan, who I will not talk

a lot about on this podcast for a lot of

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different reasons, but she's very fragile

and in a lot of different ways right now.

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And she remembers a lot of

things differently than we do.

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And she has a very different

perspective on our childhood than we do.

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And I don't want to say or do anything

that is going to do any harm to her.

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Yeah.

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And I'm

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Nora Gibbs: not gonna go out

there and say, oh, he molested

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Morgan, or he touched her.

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He didn't, he took pictures

of her in a bathing suit.

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Super fucking creepy.

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But

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Meagan McGovern: Well, and said he

wanted to buy her clothes and take

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her alone for a weekend in the city.

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Right.

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I mean, if I'm, if, if someone

wants to take me in the week for

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a weekend in New York City and buy

me clothes, I know what that means.

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You know?

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And I'm not 13.

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Right.

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Nora Gibbs: I will say I'm

very proud that mom said I.

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Bro, absolutely not.

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Get the fuck outta here.

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You

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Meagan McGovern: know?

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Okay.

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That bar is so low that

you're playing limbo in hell.

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Okay.

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I mean, come on.

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I

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Nora Gibbs: gotta give

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Meagan McGovern: her, that's a low

bar for a parent to be like, no, I

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won't sell my child into prostitution.

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And you're proud of her for that.

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Yeah, you're right.

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Nora Gibbs: It what?

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I dunno, man.

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Weirder things have

been done in this life.

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So Anyway.

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Meagan McGovern: Okay, so

let's get going with our story.

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Sure.

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As of last week, we were in la

then we moved to Connecticut.

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Then we had stayed with my aunt and

uncle, and we got set up in a house.

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We were in Fairfield, we were

in Westport, moved to Fairfield,

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Nora Gibbs: all of that.

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We were in fair.

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We were in Westport.

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And then for whatever reason, we

had to move out of that house.

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I feel like the rent wasn't paid.

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And we ended up moving to

Fairfield, Connecticut, which is

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another incredibly wealthy town.

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Just a few miles from

Westport, um, in Fairfield.

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Meagan McGovern: Okay.

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Nora Gibbs: You know,

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Meagan McGovern: so this is the

favorite house I've ever lived in.

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Great

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house

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Nora Gibbs: of

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Meagan McGovern: all.

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Oh my God.

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It's the best house ever.

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This house is my fantasy house.

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And if I, you know, what's

online three years ago,

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Nora Gibbs: it's online.

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You can look it up.

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It's like,

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Meagan McGovern: oh.

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And it was, it was for sale.

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And I looked it up and it was

actually not like that much money.

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It was like about $1 million,

which in some places that's a

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lot of money and other places.

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That's a two bedroom apartment, right.

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So, beautiful house.

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Um, this house was a, an 18th century

colonial and it was the kind of house

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that originally had an outdoor kitchen.

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And the kitchen had, was, had just

been closed in and there were.

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Slate patios.

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And there were, there was a, a, well,

from the 17 hundreds, but it had

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Nora Gibbs: the, well next to the,

well, there were like, there was

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a bench that went around it so you

could sit in the garden and there were

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sunflowers that grew in that garden.

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Meagan McGovern: And there were

ancient roses that had probably been

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planted 150 years ago that were,

there were brambles everywhere.

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And there was an attic in the house

that was just this ancient attic

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with like this tiny creepy staircase.

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And there was like, on the

main floor, there had been no

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bathrooms built in the house.

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So the only toilet was under the stairs in

a little teeny closet under the stairs and

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glorious, glorious house with a sunroom.

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And we had, of course,

no business being there.

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And it backed up to nature preserve.

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But yes, it backed up to a nature

preserve and it had woods around it and.

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If you could come up with a fantasy house.

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Oh, in the best part

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Nora Gibbs: it had a garage apartment.

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Like on the, it had an

apartment, like behind the house.

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Like a separate house?

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Meagan McGovern: Well,

it was a carriage house.

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It had originally been for carriages

and it had been turned into a tiny

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apartment and it was old and it

smelled old and it was kind of weird.

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Um, but the house, I'm trying to

remember how many bedrooms it had.

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I think it had three bedrooms upstairs.

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Well, Morgan and I shared one.

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Nora Gibbs: Susie had her

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Meagan McGovern: own mom had hers.

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Right.

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So that's the question.

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I still don't understand

how three bedrooms.

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You, Morgan got a bedroom.

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Susie got her own mom got a bedroom.

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Why did Susie get a bedroom?

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And I didn't.

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And why did you got a bedroom?

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It was in the basement.

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Okay.

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Where did Katie see?

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There was a little room.

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Katie had the dining room.

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Katie had a

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Nora Gibbs: room off the dining room.

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Katie and Tyra shared a little room.

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When Tyra came out to visit

us months later, um, there was

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a room off the dining room.

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It was like a sitting room.

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Okay.

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Meagan McGovern: But it was a dining room.

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It was, it was the dining room.

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So they closed in the dining room

and put Katie and Tyra in there.

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And then I got the basement.

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The basement really bad was a basement.

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It was damp and wet,

and it was not a room.

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And it didn't have paneling

on the walls or anything.

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It, I think it had a dirt floor.

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Yeah, it was great.

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It might have had a concrete floor, but

there was a sump pump in there, and it

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was wet and there were rats in the walls.

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There were like literal

rats that were in the walls.

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And I don't know how I agreed to

that or how I got talked into that.

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I do remember that I needed my

own bedroom, but I, I was 18.

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I had just turned 18 after.

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Just can't believe the mom

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Nora Gibbs: put Susie in a bedroom.

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And you got that.

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Meagan McGovern: Like, I,

I wonder if I wanted it.

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I wonder if I thought it was cool.

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Like there was a fireplace down there.

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Like I think it was like the

original place that they lived

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while they were building the house.

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But we're talking about a 200 50-year-old.

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Yeah.

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Stone damp.

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Not a place for a 16 year,

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Nora Gibbs: 17-year-old girl.

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How old were we at when you were 17 or

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Meagan McGovern: 18?

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No, I had just turned 18, but like,

it was old wooden stairs to get down

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there and creepy and damp and moist.

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And my bed would, I would wake up in

the bed morning, my bed would be wet

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and damp from the, just from everything.

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And before long, Katie and I

moved out to the carriage house.

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Right.

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Um, and I don't think it was

ready when we first moved in.

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I don't think it was fixed up.

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And we sort of fixed

up or maybe painted it.

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And it was, is probably one

big room that was 20 by 10.

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A tiny, tiny bedroom, a toilet shower.

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And there was a kitchen,

a little tiny kitchen.

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I think it was like, it was like a, a

stove and a mini fridge kind of thing.

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So it was more, it was about the size

of a nice dorm room or dorm apartment.

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It was kind of a.

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It was a cool place for two teenagers.

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It really was, but it wasn't like

a huge apartment or anything.

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Um, but because of this great property,

it was far from the main house.

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Like you would go to the main house and

then this was way behind where you would

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park the carriages originally, maybe

a hundred feet behind the main house.

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But it was enough that Katie

and I could have parties out

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there and mom wouldn't do it.

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Yeah.

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And I was 18 and mom was also in a

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Nora Gibbs: major

depression in this house.

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Mom was in bed a lot.

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Meagan McGovern: She, that's what

I am remembering about this house.

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Yeah.

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Is that, I don't know what

happened or what, shut her down.

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I ju I don't know.

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I know that when we were living in

Los Angeles, one of the things I, I

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forgot to say in the last episode, we

were living in LA after Oregon, and

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I think maybe that's what shut her

down, is not getting the money from

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the house in la And she realized that.

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Everything that had happened on

sale of Century, all the money she

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won, all of the prize money that

had gone into the house in la.

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She thought she was gonna

translate that into something else.

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We moved to Oregon.

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The money never came.

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We went back to LA to get the money.

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The money never came.

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Now we're back in Connecticut.

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I think she turned 50 in this house.

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'cause I remember a big 50.

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Nora Gibbs: That's about right.

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Because I would've been

14 when we moved next.

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Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

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And so I think she realized

that everything was just kind

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of over, we're living in this

house that she can't afford.

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There's no money coming in.

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She's never gonna get a job.

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Nothing's really gonna

happen the way she wants.

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I'm over 18 now.

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Her kids are teenagers.

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You're, you know, 13, 14.

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Her life's not turning out the way she

wanted and she just kind of crashed

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and she was in bed all the time.

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I remember some painting and

things going on, but I don't

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know what she did every day.

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I do know that this was our first

exposure to kids with money.

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Right.

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And Katie went to what high school?

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West Westport High School.

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Fairfield High School.

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Well, I went

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Nora Gibbs: to Tomlinson Middle School.

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I think she must have gone

to Fairfield High School.

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Meagan McGovern: And she and Tyra was

there on and off, and there were kids

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with so much money that it was just.

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Unreal.

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Like they all got BMWs

for their 16th birthday.

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Right.

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And you know, really nice cars.

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And they all had bands because they would

just go buy the equipment they needed.

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They would buy a drum set.

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The kind of money

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Nora Gibbs: on this, like I, you

know, was playing softball and one

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of our softball coaches was Meatloaf

and like, so Meatloaf, his daughter,

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he had her daughter named Pearl and

she was like on the softball team.

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And then there was another girl on our

team and her name was Chandler Roosevelt.

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She was Roosevelt's great,

great granddaughter.

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So, I mean, there was some real

like generational wealth and some

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of the kids that, that I knew.

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And these weren't the kids that

you guys were like partying with?

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These were just kids that I

went to school with, you know?

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Meagan McGovern: Well the, I mean

the kids we were partying with, their

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fathers all worked city on Wall Street.

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They all worked in New

York City, all of them.

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And.

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I don't know where they came from.

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I don't know where we met them, but

this was the kind of town where there

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was a beach and it was open all summer

long and you would get the pass for the

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beach and people would go every day.

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But you would just go down into

the town and go to the festival

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and walk around and meet people.

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I met, I mean, one of my best

friends, um, Evan, I met him wandering

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around at the Beach Festival and

we've been friends ever since.

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And um, he was the ultimate

in Connecticut Prep.

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Oh yeah.

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Evan is the

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Nora Gibbs: epitome of Connecticut.

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Preppy.

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Meagan McGovern: They got a house.

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Nora Gibbs: I loved his mom.

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And his mom dated Jimi Hendrix and Jimi

Hendrix asked his mom to marry him.

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Did you know that?

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Wow.

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Meagan McGovern: I did not.

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I know that.

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And his father

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Nora Gibbs: was a famous jazz musician.

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Meagan McGovern: His

father was a jazz musician.

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They had a, a summer house in

Maine because everybody, right.

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Where do you He went to?

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He went, he, and this is not to

this Evan, 'cause he's really

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one of my favorite people.

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Nora Gibbs: He's the best the.

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Meagan McGovern: Um, he couldn't

get up for school and it was

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really hard for him to get up.

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And now I realize that is,

you know, A DHD or something.

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There was something that was different

about him than anybody else, but he

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couldn't get up for school and had a very

hard time, even though he was brilliant.

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And so he went to a prep school in Maine

that she sent him away to, you know, a,

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a boarding school where there were 12

kids and it was called the deck House.

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And they got you up for school

to make sure that he could

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get into a good college.

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Yeah.

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Because that's what you did there.

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Yeah.

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If your kid didn't,

you know, so all of it.

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So we met these kids who just had all

the money and these ancient houses and

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these fantastic connections, and they

would show up for a party with, you

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know, a bottle of tequila, a bottle

of booze, three six packs of beer.

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They'd been drinking

since they were 14, 15.

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We, we were not a drinking

and partying family.

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Yeah.

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Never until, I mean, the

whole time we were in Oregon.

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I don't, I never had a beer.

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I, I never drank in, in California

with my friends from high school.

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I was not a drinker at this house.

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There was cocaine, there was

booze, there was alcohol.

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You guys did cocaine.

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I don't know what you're talking about.

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I just said there might

have been some in the house.

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Oh my God, I

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Nora Gibbs: didn't know that.

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Meagan McGovern: And

then you goes, you were

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Nora Gibbs: supposed to be my big si.

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Oh my God.

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I'm so, I'm so disappointed.

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Meagan McGovern: I honestly

don't remember actually doing it.

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I just remember there being it there.

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I don't know.

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I remember talking about

there was no cocaine.

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Um, I don't know.

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I remember one night the parties

were so bad that one of Katie's

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boyfriends went to hit me because

I, you know, I can provoke you.

409

:

You can, you post and the ima imagine a

wealthy Connecticut frat bro at a party

410

:

and tells me something about feminism.

411

:

I mean, that's just the way it's gonna go.

412

:

Right.

413

:

So.

414

:

He went to take a swing at me and he

missed 'cause he was so drunk and he

415

:

put his um, hand through the glass on

the, I remember that he put his hands

416

:

through the front window and he pulled

back his arm and there's a piece of

417

:

glass sticking out of his vein on his arm

and it's throbbing and it's an arterial

418

:

wound and it's pumping out of his wrist

and he wants to go home and go to bed

419

:

and doesn't want me to call the cops.

420

:

And Katie's yelling at me 'cause I

provoked him and he's telling me that I

421

:

am, you know, all sorts of expletives.

422

:

I remember he called

423

:

Nora Gibbs: you a SCE Tuesday.

424

:

I don't say that word.

425

:

Meagan McGovern: Yes he did.

426

:

And it was, I was really happy about that.

427

:

Yeah.

428

:

And then I was tempted to

let him bleed to death.

429

:

But this was the only time I think

that we had to go wake mom up and

430

:

mom was taking sleeping pills and

we had to go wake her up and get

431

:

her out of bed and get her to call.

432

:

I think she called his parents.

433

:

I don't remember an

ambulance, but I don't know.

434

:

I mean, he probably.

435

:

She just died and there

was blood everywhere.

436

:

And I think after that maybe that's

when I had to move into the basement.

437

:

That's what it was.

438

:

Katie and I got that house from the

very beginning and then once that

439

:

happened and all the parties happened,

I had to move into the basement.

440

:

Oh good.

441

:

Well I wanna say she actually

442

:

Nora Gibbs: parented like a little

443

:

Meagan McGovern: Yes no.

444

:

Well no.

445

:

She rented out the house

for thousand was say.

446

:

I

447

:

Nora Gibbs: remember she

rented out that house though.

448

:

Meagan McGovern: She rented

it out so that she could make

449

:

money and threw us outta there.

450

:

And I was so pissed about that.

451

:

And then I had the basement rat.

452

:

That's

453

:

what it was.

454

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

455

:

So that's why I ended up in the

rat filled basement and how Katie

456

:

ended up in the dining room.

457

:

Nora Gibbs: That makes more sense.

458

:

Meagan McGovern: So anyway,

we didn't last there long.

459

:

Go figure.

460

:

I did go back to college.

461

:

I went to Sacred Heart University,

which was a little private school.

462

:

That was a commuter school.

463

:

I think I got three.

464

:

Semesters.

465

:

Well,

466

:

Nora Gibbs: I know we were in that

house for like at least a full year

467

:

because I remember, this is the house

that I started going to summer camp.

468

:

I went to Camp Candlewood in Candlewood

Lake and I started going to Girl Scout

469

:

camp and I went for two years in a row.

470

:

So we messed we year.

471

:

We did,

472

:

Meagan McGovern: I think we moved in

in January and we didn't move out until

473

:

a year from May, . Wait, can I ended

moving the other, can I, can I tell you

474

:

Nora Gibbs: my childhood trauma story?

475

:

Meagan McGovern: Oh, I know what this is

and it makes me look bad, but go ahead

476

:

and tell me anyway because which one

477

:

Nora Gibbs: is this is the one here.

478

:

I was supposed to be picked up for

camp and nobody picked me up for camp.

479

:

And we were all being picked up in

a church parking lot and everybody's

480

:

like, Hey, where's your mom?

481

:

And this is before cell phones.

482

:

And I'm like, I don't know.

483

:

Someone's gonna be here soon, I guess.

484

:

And my friend Terry's mom, or Gail's

mom, Gail, um, my friend Gail Rosenblum,

485

:

whose grandfather was Samuel Morris,

who invented Morris Code, by the way.

486

:

Um, how cool is that?

487

:

But anyway, so Gail, her mom stayed with

me and she was like, why don't we just

488

:

call your house and see if they're there?

489

:

And mom answered the

phone and she said, hello?

490

:

And I said, you're supposed to pick me up.

491

:

And this is like an hour away from

where, you know, we lived where she

492

:

was supposed to pick me up, right?

493

:

And she was like, oh, I

thought that was tomorrow.

494

:

You guys forgot me at camp.

495

:

Wow.

496

:

I've been gone like two weeks.

497

:

I was expecting like a

parade when I got home.

498

:

You guys fucking forgot about me at camp.

499

:

So anyway, Yale's mom brought

me off at home and, and

500

:

Meagan McGovern: well, I remember

being jealous that you learned how to.

501

:

Wind.

502

:

Yeah, I can do it all man.

503

:

Nora Gibbs: I can, I can say.

504

:

Meagan McGovern: And I remember being

jealous that you gotta go to camp.

505

:

So you were jealous.

506

:

I got a graduation from I was jealous.

507

:

You Camp?

508

:

Camp.

509

:

Nora Gibbs: My friends were going, I

joined a Girl Scout troop in that school

510

:

and all of my friends were going to this

camp and I told 'em I couldn't afford it.

511

:

And my girl Scout troop leader gave me an

application for financial aid for camp.

512

:

And I literally sat down and filled

out all the forms and got it all

513

:

together and took it to the post office.

514

:

I think I made somebody drive me to the

post office and mailed off these financial

515

:

aid forms so that I could go to camp.

516

:

'cause there was no

money to send me to camp.

517

:

And I got a full ride to camp and I got

to go for the two weeks back to back.

518

:

So it was a 14 day session.

519

:

Meagan McGovern: Fantastic.

520

:

Well, I'll tell you one of

the coolest things, one of the

521

:

coolest things I did there.

522

:

So we lived there for that year and a

half, and in the first summer there,

523

:

one of the summers there, I wanted

to be an underwater archeologist.

524

:

And surprise, surprise.

525

:

You know, sacred Heart University doesn't

have an underwater archeology degree.

526

:

So I went off one summer and

I went through, I think it was

527

:

through Cornell University.

528

:

I took a class in underwater

archeology at an island off the coast

529

:

of Maine called Apple Door Islands,

and I think it was for two weeks.

530

:

And I had to get certified

in scuba diving to go do it.

531

:

And I went and paid the classes.

532

:

I had a job at a restaurant and

I paid for the scuba classes, got

533

:

certified in scuba diving, took the

class and went up there and you guys

534

:

had to drive me to Ruth Bay Harbor.

535

:

Um, yeah, it was somewhere up in Maine.

536

:

You had to drive me like

Booth Bay Harbor somewhere.

537

:

I still Bay Harbor.

538

:

I love Booth.

539

:

Bay Harbor, I love Booth Bay Harbo.

540

:

And so I took the and, and I had to get

on a ferry and go, but when we got there,

541

:

I had paid for, and classes were not

that much then it was like 300, $400.

542

:

Something about that.

543

:

But I had paid most of the class, but

there was still $300 due because we were

544

:

supposed to pay it six weeks in advance.

545

:

And of course we hadn't.

546

:

And mom wrote a check, oh

my God, for the rest of it.

547

:

And I remember mom writing

a check for the rest of it.

548

:

You're

549

:

Nora Gibbs: thinking,

there's no way that's a rub.

550

:

Meagan McGovern: I couldn't

even think about it.

551

:

I just went and got on the boat and did

it, because I knew they wouldn't find

552

:

out in the next two weeks when I got on

the boat and mom swore it would be there.

553

:

What was I gonna say?

554

:

No, it's not.

555

:

That check

556

:

Nora Gibbs: was kind of rubber.

557

:

It was about to bounce all over the place.

558

:

Meagan McGovern: Well, I went

and I ate blueberry pie from

559

:

blueberries we picked on the island.

560

:

And every night we would scuba

dive and we would go pick lobsters

561

:

off the ocean floor and then boil

them up in a pot on the beach.

562

:

I would like to camp now.

563

:

Nora Gibbs: Can we go

564

:

Meagan McGovern: this

565

:

Nora Gibbs: summer?

566

:

Meagan McGovern: And then we would

go and look at archeological ruins

567

:

of some pottery place that had been

there by the, you know, colonists

568

:

in the, in the late 16 hundreds.

569

:

And they had left pottery behind

and I met the most adorable.

570

:

Fantastic kids from Ivy League

universities and everything else.

571

:

Yeah.

572

:

And it was just, and and the world's

leading expert on sharks came and

573

:

gave a tour about when sharks and

I would scuba dive and there were

574

:

little baby nurse sharks down there.

575

:

And it was, this was the fantasy

of what I wanted from college.

576

:

And I knew I was going back to a

couple of classes at Sacred Heart

577

:

that I was not gonna graduate from.

578

:

But yeah.

579

:

So later on I never got the credit from

that class because we owed them $300 and I

580

:

never got, you know, any of that paid off.

581

:

So I remember them calling

the house for years.

582

:

That's really funny.

583

:

Nora Gibbs: Well, hopefully the statute

of limitations has also gone on that,

584

:

so you don't get hit up for $300.

585

:

And I don't get hit up from

my Columbia House records.

586

:

Meagan McGovern: That was probably

the only way we listened to music.

587

:

Was that.

588

:

Yeah.

589

:

'cause we changed addresses

all the time, so why not?

590

:

Oh my God.

591

:

Nora Gibbs: Crazy town.

592

:

Meagan McGovern: So, all right.

593

:

We ended up moving after two years here.

594

:

It was actually good that we moved

because Katie and I were underwater.

595

:

We were drinking too.

596

:

Even without, even after we moved outta

that house, we still went to other

597

:

parties and things were just, I mean,

I didn't like to drink and party, but

598

:

you know, I had a cute, some friends

and I liked it, but it was a bad

599

:

environment for kids without moving.

600

:

Oh

601

:

yeah.

602

:

Meagan McGovern: You know, we didn't,

we didn't have the money to back up

603

:

partying all summer and then going

to work and then going to college.

604

:

'cause we didn't have the co money.

605

:

We

606

:

Nora Gibbs: were so pouring this out.

607

:

We had, um, I will tell you that we had a,

608

:

I had a sleepover and all of the

popular girls came and it was

609

:

like the end all be all sleepover.

610

:

It was so fun.

611

:

It was the best night ever.

612

:

We had such a good time and the

next morning we were all like,

613

:

oh, what do you wanna do today?

614

:

And they invited me to go to the mall

with them and I was so excited that I

615

:

finally got invited to go to the mall.

616

:

'cause like back in those days going

to the mall was, that's where you

617

:

did, you hung out on the mall and.

618

:

They were like, okay, just have

your mom drop us off at the mall.

619

:

Mom wouldn't let the girls in

our car 'cause we didn't have car

620

:

insurance and she was afraid that

we were gonna, she somebody was

621

:

gonna crash the car or something.

622

:

And if these girls got into a car

without car insurance and something

623

:

happened, their families would own us.

624

:

So she said, no, she wouldn't

let us go to the mall.

625

:

And I was so embarrassed and

she made everybody's parents

626

:

come and take them home.

627

:

Meagan McGovern: I wonder if that's true.

628

:

That doesn't sound like mom.

629

:

It sounds like you know, the car

wasn't working right or the car was

630

:

gonna be repossessed or something.

631

:

There

632

:

Nora Gibbs: was, and it was really

weird to me because, I mean,

633

:

we'd never had car insurance.

634

:

Right.

635

:

Meagan McGovern: I was just gonna say,

that doesn't sound like a reasonable

636

:

explanation because that doesn't sound

like something would've stopped her.

637

:

But I mean, like,

638

:

Nora Gibbs: I, I remember going

into her room and saying, mom,

639

:

I really wanna go to the mall.

640

:

Can you take me and my friends?

641

:

And she thought about it for a

minute and she like literally told

642

:

me that there was no car insurance

and we couldn't take them in the car.

643

:

So.

644

:

And, you know, I don't, I just told

them some other story, like my mom

645

:

said, no, I mean, I'm not gonna go

tell these Uber wealthy girls like,

646

:

Hey, I'm sorry I can't be one of your

friends because I'm poor, you know?

647

:

Anyway, so who knows

what the real story was.

648

:

Yeah.

649

:

Meagan McGovern: So in the background of

all this, mom was working on stuff and

650

:

she was always, she was a freelance writer

if you asked her, which kind of bothers

651

:

me 'cause I say I'm a freelance writer.

652

:

And so it bothers me because

she That's what she said.

653

:

I know, I know.

654

:

Um, and, but she did make, have

some articles here and there in the

655

:

Inquirer and in other different places.

656

:

And she made money selling tips to places.

657

:

And I don't know what she did,

but somehow out of all of this,

658

:

she had another grand plan.

659

:

And this was like the grand

plan on sale of the century.

660

:

The grand plan was, her family

was from the Adirondacks.

661

:

We had always been from the Adirondacks.

662

:

And we told this story

that we were up there for.

663

:

A while and she had burned down the house,

but she had a lot of connections up there.

664

:

Weird tenuous connections.

665

:

'cause she had never actually lived there.

666

:

This is where her second cousins and

her grandma's sisters kids were from and

667

:

where all of our ancestors were from.

668

:

But she had only spent summers up there.

669

:

She'd never actually lived there,

but somehow a friend of hers

670

:

had the rights to a boy

scout camp up there.

671

:

And there was a boy scout camp

that was this huge property.

672

:

I think it was 145 acres,

maybe it was 245 acres.

673

:

It was a lot.

674

:

It was big and it was all woods except

for one small house in the property

675

:

that had been there for 150 years.

676

:

It was like a summer camp.

677

:

You couldn't really live

in the house year round.

678

:

But it was a, a great Adirondack house.

679

:

The property was so far to the back

that it had a mile long driveway up

680

:

through the woods, but the rest of the

property was owned by the Boy Scouts

681

:

and had been, and they had been going

to develop it into a camp because

682

:

it had lakes and it had rivers, and

it was, you know, pretty pristine.

683

:

But the Boy Scouts decided it

wasn't in the right place for camp

684

:

and they weren't going to use it.

685

:

And somehow or another, my mom

talked one of her friends into

686

:

the rights to sell the camp.

687

:

I will never understand how she did that.

688

:

I will never understand how

she had the rights to it.

689

:

I don't know whether she offered him

$10 to sell the rights or whether she

690

:

offered to be the contractor for it.

691

:

Somehow or another, my mother

swindled stole or legitimately

692

:

got the rights to the camp, but

she didn't the rights to sell it.

693

:

But she didn't own it.

694

:

She hadn't paid any money

for it, but she was the only

695

:

person who could sell the camp.

696

:

So, and she didn't have a

697

:

Nora Gibbs: realtor degree.

698

:

She was not a realtor.

699

:

Meagan McGovern: She did at some

700

:

Nora Gibbs: point be real estate.

701

:

This was, that was later

when we were in Glen's Fox.

702

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

703

:

Yeah.

704

:

But she did, I mean, she

knew a lot about real estate.

705

:

She bought and sold so many houses and

lived in somewhere else, but on paper,

706

:

Nora Gibbs: legally she was not a realtor.

707

:

Just for those, wondering

how, maybe she was realtor.

708

:

She was not a realtor,

709

:

Meagan McGovern: but a realtor

doesn't have a right to sell

710

:

a certain property either.

711

:

This was something where if you wanted

to buy this property, you had to go

712

:

through her and you, she wouldn't end

up with the money for the property.

713

:

Somebody else had to buy it, but she would

end up with the profit on it, so if she

714

:

could sell it for a hundred, so if, if

someone would buy it for 150 or whatever

715

:

the guy wanted for it, or the rights to

it were 150 and she could sell it for

716

:

300, she would get 150,000 outta it.

717

:

I will never, I, I, no matter what

paperwork I look at and how I figure

718

:

out how this worked, I don't understand

how it worked, but it did on paper.

719

:

So she had people in the Adirondacks

that were of course, interested in

720

:

this property because it was 150,000

acre or 150 acres of, of pristine

721

:

woodlands for a very low price.

722

:

She just had to come up, she just

had to pay off the loan for the

723

:

Boy Scouts or whatever it was.

724

:

It was whatever they owed was

all that she needed to cover.

725

:

So it was for some ungodly price,

like $40,000 or $50,000 was all

726

:

she needed to cover, and she

would keep the profit on the rest.

727

:

So she wanted to move the Adirondacks

so she could make this deal go through

728

:

so that she could keep part of the

property for herself and let somebody

729

:

else buy the rest of the property.

730

:

That was gonna be like, her finder's

fee was, she was gonna keep 40

731

:

acres and they were gonna keep, they

were gonna buy the other 110 per

732

:

acres or however it was gonna work.

733

:

So we needed to leave

Connecticut and go up there.

734

:

But she didn't wanna lose the

house we had in Connecticut.

735

:

She just wanted to do this for the summer.

736

:

So she rented out our

house for $3,000 a month.

737

:

To somebody else, to people from New York

City who wanted to come to Connecticut.

738

:

Nora Gibbs: I didn't know that

739

:

Meagan McGovern: for the stuff.

740

:

So we left all of our stuff.

741

:

We took most of the stuff out, left some

of the furniture and put it in storage

742

:

in one of the garages there, and then

moved to the Adirondacks because she

743

:

got them to pay for the house up front.

744

:

$9,000 for three months.

745

:

For three months in that house that

she was paying $1,700 a month for which

746

:

she probably didn't pay for the summer

747

:

for sure.

748

:

Meagan McGovern: She took $9,000 and we

went up to the Adirondacks with that and

749

:

we rented a house in the Adirondacks.

750

:

Nora Gibbs: I didn't know that.

751

:

I didn't know that's how that happened.

752

:

Interesting.

753

:

Meagan McGovern: Well, and the other

part was funny was that she didn't have

754

:

a place to stay, so she sent Evan and

me up to go look for a place in the

755

:

Adirondacks and he was home for the

summer and he and I were not dating.

756

:

I was crazy in love with

him, but we didn't ever date.

757

:

Um, he was just my best friend because.

758

:

Apparently I'm not the right kind of

girl for a preppy Connecticut boy.

759

:

Go figure.

760

:

Um, but he adored me.

761

:

He thought I was the

best, coolest person ever.

762

:

Just not kind.

763

:

Yeah.

764

:

So she sent us up to the Adirondacks on a

fact finding, and this is like a five hour

765

:

Nora Gibbs: drive, four

and a half, five hours.

766

:

Meagan McGovern: I was just gonna

say it's what, four, five hours?

767

:

And I don't remember if we had a, I

remember driving up there a couple times.

768

:

We drove

769

:

Nora Gibbs: it a couple years ago.

770

:

We were in bad or something.

771

:

We drove to Connecticut.

772

:

I I think it's like four

and a half, five hours.

773

:

Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

774

:

And it's, it's, it's not a bad

drive, but it's shitty in Okay.

775

:

It's not a bad drive to

get past in the summer.

776

:

It's beautiful

777

:

in the winter.

778

:

Oh, it's, it's

779

:

Meagan McGovern: one of the most

America's most scenic highway.

780

:

It's kinda like Colorado.

781

:

It's fantastic if you're

going in the summer.

782

:

Yeah.

783

:

In the winter.

784

:

It's, it's tricky.

785

:

And it's back mountain roads and

there's a lot of snow and you

786

:

don't wanna go during a blizzard.

787

:

Um, but we went in the summer

and we found a fantastic little.

788

:

House for rent.

789

:

I think in those days you looked in

the um, paper or you went into the bar

790

:

and said, who's got a house for rent?

791

:

Yeah.

792

:

And we went up there and checked out the

house and we actually went to the house,

793

:

rented it, took my mom's money and put

down the down payment for the thing.

794

:

Came back for the weekend and um,

he and I had a blast and I thought,

795

:

this is the life we could spend.

796

:

And she promised that I'd be back

in September in time for school.

797

:

'cause I was at Sacred Heart University.

798

:

I had three semesters there.

799

:

So now after two years out of high school,

I had enough credits for like being

800

:

a freshman and I was okay with this.

801

:

So we went back and we

got, I, but you know what?

802

:

We didn't bring our stuff.

803

:

This was like one of the first moves.

804

:

We didn't bring our stuff 'cause we

left it Oh, at the house in Connecticut.

805

:

Yeah.

806

:

That's why we were able to move

into this little furnished place.

807

:

Nora Gibbs: Um, and this house

was on Lake Avena and was, yeah.

808

:

Um.

809

:

Stanton Road.

810

:

'cause I ended up, my teacher

up there ended up being Ms.

811

:

Stanton.

812

:

Her family used to, was named

813

:

Meagan McGovern: after her.

814

:

Sorry.

815

:

I, everybody up there like Bennett Road

is named Bennetts who stayed there.

816

:

Yeah, sure.

817

:

Everything up there is.

818

:

Yeah.

819

:

Well, so the place that my mother

wanted to buy was on a stretch

820

:

of road called Fagans Flats.

821

:

And it was, the Fagans

were my great-grandparents.

822

:

They owned, uh, in their

bed and breakfast there.

823

:

My great-great-grandfather was

from Ireland, but she wanted to buy

824

:

Nora Gibbs: a house there while we

were living in that little house.

825

:

Meagan McGovern: No, the, the

sissy place, the property, the

826

:

Ste place was on Fagan spots.

827

:

The boy property

828

:

Nora Gibbs: for those behind the listening

was called the sce place, S-I-S-T-E.

829

:

Meagan McGovern: And it was called The

Ste Place because her friend Bobby Ste

830

:

had lived there in the fifties and sixties

in this house that she had the rights to

831

:

that had been turned into the Boy Scout.

832

:

The story goes though.

833

:

Alright, you wanna tell the

story about the Sy place and why

834

:

Sy didn't live there anymore?

835

:

Nora Gibbs: You tell it and

then I'll tell what I remember.

836

:

Meagan McGovern: Okay.

837

:

So the Sies or whoever it was who

had lived in this house, lived in

838

:

the house, but everybody had said

there was a ghost on the property

839

:

and everybody told them that that

was ridiculous and they didn't care.

840

:

But something had happened to them

that was so scary that they had

841

:

moved outta the house in the 1950s

and left everything the way it was

842

:

like furniture and everything there.

843

:

And nobody had lived in the house

up until now, until like:

844

:

We were, this was almost,

this was 19 88, 19 89.

845

:

So it'd been almost 40 years

since somebody lived in the house

846

:

because they moved out the day

after this bad thing happened.

847

:

And everybody knew that this place was

haunted and everybody knew that this

848

:

place had a ghost called the peddler's.

849

:

The

850

:

Nora Gibbs: peddler,

851

:

Meagan McGovern: and.

852

:

Nora Gibbs: All I know about this

is that there was a ghost of a man

853

:

who used to have a pedaling cart.

854

:

Like when people, back in the

olden days, again, back when Megan

855

:

was a baby, they used to like go

from town to town or whatever.

856

:

They would have like a cart and

they would just sell like pots and

857

:

pans and random things and they,

anything they could sell, right?

858

:

And this ghost, the peddler would

go up and down the property pedaling

859

:

his wares, and you could hear the

pots and pans banging around in the

860

:

middle of the night, supposedly.

861

:

Like,

862

:

Meagan McGovern: well, apparently

the, the story is, is that this was

863

:

logging camp at one point and that

where the house was, there was a mild

864

:

long driveway down to the house that

that had originally been a logging road

865

:

that went into the main, main part.

866

:

That's why the area for the house was

cleared, 'cause it had been logged

867

:

and that the peddler came in to

sell the loggers, I don't know, food

868

:

wares, pots and pans, pancake mix.

869

:

Who knows what he was selling.

870

:

And they had gotten into some kind

of argument and the peddler had

871

:

been killed and that the ghost had

been on the property ever since.

872

:

And I don't know if I believe in

ghosts or anything else, but I

873

:

do know that this was a creepy

874

:

Nora Gibbs: ass house.

875

:

It was really fucking creepy.

876

:

Meagan McGovern: Do you remember?

877

:

Nora Gibbs: I remember bits and

pieces of, I remember thinking,

878

:

I don't wanna live here.

879

:

Like, and I was up for anything

at that point, you know, like I

880

:

loved old, funky random houses.

881

:

This house was, it was small

and it was more like, it was

882

:

more a camp than a house.

883

:

Meagan McGovern: Well, and it was,

I mean, it was very:

884

:

bathroom had bright pink and black

tile right now would, would be so

885

:

full

886

:

Meagan McGovern: it would be.

887

:

But in the eighties it looked

like a 30-year-old house.

888

:

Now it looks like a

retro, you know, house.

889

:

But the other thing was that

because there was a mile long

890

:

driveway, there was no telephone.

891

:

Yeah.

892

:

Because you couldn't get a mile, you

couldn't get a phone down that long.

893

:

There was no electricity.

894

:

It was run by generators

895

:

and you had

896

:

Nora Gibbs: to pay someone to, um,

plow the road in the snow and we

897

:

couldn't afford to pay anybody.

898

:

Meagan McGovern: Well, not only that,

you had to pay to repair the road.

899

:

It's a mile long gravel driveway, right?

900

:

So in the winter, every time it snows,

not only do you have to pay to have

901

:

somebody to plow it, which they do

get up to six feet of snow there.

902

:

We're talking not at a time.

903

:

You get one foot at a time

or six inches at a time.

904

:

But it adds up.

905

:

And in order to go, like to get

on the school bus by 7:00 AM you

906

:

would have to have somebody plow.

907

:

That's never gonna happen.

908

:

Okay, so what, how

909

:

Nora Gibbs: did we end up

not moving into that house?

910

:

Meagan McGovern: We,

911

:

Nora Gibbs: we didn't own

house, wanted to sell it.

912

:

So we moved into the house on Lake Lake.

913

:

Meagan McGovern: Right.

914

:

So she found a guy in Indian

Lake, and I don't wanna talk

915

:

about his name or anything else.

916

:

He was a businessman.

917

:

He, I'll tell you, he's still there.

918

:

And he's a

919

:

Nora Gibbs: very big businessman there.

920

:

He has done nothing, great

things for that town.

921

:

Meagan McGovern: He died a couple years

ago, but his son is still running.

922

:

Well the family

923

:

Nora Gibbs: name is still there, right?

924

:

Yeah.

925

:

Meagan McGovern: Right.

926

:

And so he was a perfectly nice guy,

a decent man who heard my mother's

927

:

proposal that she had this piece of

land that, you know, she only needed

928

:

to get like 40,000 for whatever the

number was, something really cheap.

929

:

'cause she had the rights that she could

buy this piece of land for like $40,000.

930

:

She had first Right.

931

:

Of ref Yeah.

932

:

Dibs,

933

:

Meagan McGovern: right of

refusal, whatever it was.

934

:

And so maybe it was owned by a

corporation or something, that that

935

:

was the only way they could sell it.

936

:

So if he would buy the property for say

160,000, my mother would give up the

937

:

rights to all of it that would pay off the

40,000 that they, they needed to cover.

938

:

And she wanted to keep.

939

:

The house and 40 acres, and I

think he thought this was too good

940

:

to be true and it must be a scam

because nobody has offers like this.

941

:

But he had a couple lawyers look into

it and they realized it was a good deal

942

:

and they realized it was legit and that

she really did have the right to this.

943

:

And he said, actually,

that doesn't sound bad.

944

:

If you want to buy this for

and you wanna own land, I think

945

:

she was gonna come out of it.

946

:

At the end of it, she was gonna

come out of it with the house, 40

947

:

acres and something like $40,000.

948

:

He was going to get 120 acres

of land that he could turn into

949

:

whatever he wanted for whatever.

950

:

And it was a pretty decent price and

it wouldn't cost him anything except

951

:

the cost of the land, but it was going

to take months to do all the deals and

952

:

months to do all the paperwork, which

is why she was there for the summer.

953

:

So within a couple of weeks he

gave her like $15,000 cash as an

954

:

in a van from the whole thing.

955

:

And he let us use his name.

956

:

Okay.

957

:

It was a van that was owned by

the company 'cause he owned like

958

:

a water, a raft sports thing.

959

:

And I think he did skiing in

the summer and in the winter.

960

:

I mean skiing in the winter

and in the summer he did white

961

:

water raft because we went

962

:

Nora Gibbs: raft.

963

:

He, he let us all white water rafting

for free and I fell outta the boat.

964

:

Right?

965

:

Yeah.

966

:

Good.

967

:

Meagan McGovern: Right.

968

:

So he was mom's business

partner essentially.

969

:

And, but it was gonna take months

to get all the deals worked out.

970

:

And I also obviously think that he

could see that mom had no money,

971

:

couldn't wait long for this deal.

972

:

And if he had to lend us a

van, it wasn't like she had a

973

:

lot of money to put into it.

974

:

I don't think he wanted to screw over.

975

:

But he also was a businessman and

wasn't gonna be taken for a ride

976

:

and he didn't want his reputation

and name put us with anything bad.

977

:

So over the course of the summer,

we would go and visit this place

978

:

and talk about how to live there.

979

:

And he would say things like, you're

sure you wanna live here in the winter.

980

:

When there's no way to get to school.

981

:

And she's like, oh, we can figure it out.

982

:

We can hire a local guy.

983

:

Oh, we'll get a truck.

984

:

And he's like, well, what are

you gonna do about a phone?

985

:

She's like, well, we

don't really need a phone.

986

:

We can just, you know, come, go

down to the, I don't even know

987

:

how she was doing all this, right?

988

:

But he's like, well, you're gonna

need to get a better generator.

989

:

Nobody's lived there in 40 years.

990

:

It's had a caretaker, but it's not.

991

:

Anyway, by September we were supposed to

move in and you were gonna go to school.

992

:

So I don't remember what we

did that July and August.

993

:

We partied a lot.

994

:

Oh my God.

995

:

Had great, had such a good time.

996

:

Nora Gibbs: I loved Indian Lake.

997

:

I had the best time ever.

998

:

My friend Shelly worked at

the ice cream store in town.

999

:

We went to the movies all the time.

:

00:41:53,486 --> 00:41:53,576

Right?

:

00:41:54,056 --> 00:41:54,866

We helped her.

:

00:41:54,866 --> 00:42:00,206

I ran, mom met a girl on the street,

and I, I'll never forget this mom met a

:

00:42:00,206 --> 00:42:04,556

girl on the street who was 13 years old,

and she said, hi, my name's Maureen.

:

00:42:04,556 --> 00:42:05,576

I have a daughter.

:

00:42:05,726 --> 00:42:06,716

How old are you?

:

00:42:06,986 --> 00:42:09,476

And the girl looked at her

and was like, I'm sorry, what?

:

00:42:09,836 --> 00:42:10,677

And she said, how old are you?

:

00:42:10,682 --> 00:42:11,636

And she said, I'm 13.

:

00:42:11,636 --> 00:42:13,466

She said, I have a 13-year-old daughter.

:

00:42:13,796 --> 00:42:15,506

Will you come be her friend?

:

00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:19,001

I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

:

00:42:19,031 --> 00:42:21,011

This is the most embarrassing

thing that's ever happened.

:

00:42:21,371 --> 00:42:25,331

And she's still one of my dearest friends

in the whole, my whole life it was Taryn

:

00:42:25,871 --> 00:42:30,311

mom flagged Terran down on the street and

said, will you be my daughter's friend?

:

00:42:30,371 --> 00:42:33,251

And who knew Mom could

pick your friends for you?

:

00:42:33,341 --> 00:42:35,351

Literally picked her up off

the street in Indian Lake.

:

00:42:36,641 --> 00:42:37,541

Meagan McGovern: Spoiler alert.

:

00:42:37,601 --> 00:42:38,531

I dated her brother.

:

00:42:38,621 --> 00:42:39,551

And that's all you need to say.

:

00:42:39,551 --> 00:42:40,601

Do not say anything else.

:

00:42:40,631 --> 00:42:41,981

Nora Gibbs: Oh my God,

my tongue is bleeding.

:

00:42:41,981 --> 00:42:43,001

'cause I'm biting it so hard.

:

00:42:43,571 --> 00:42:44,441

Meagan McGovern: Do not say anything else.

:

00:42:44,441 --> 00:42:45,731

I'm not, anyway,

:

00:42:46,391 --> 00:42:48,341

Nora Gibbs: but if you'd like to

email me, I'll give you details.

:

00:42:48,731 --> 00:42:49,271

Just kidding.

:

00:42:53,291 --> 00:42:55,601

Meagan McGovern: Um, he was

a senior in high school.

:

00:42:55,601 --> 00:42:56,381

That's exactly.

:

00:42:56,801 --> 00:42:59,951

And I was, and I was two

years into college, so I was a

:

00:42:59,951 --> 00:43:00,701

little bit older than he was.

:

00:43:00,796 --> 00:43:01,156

That's so true.

:

00:43:01,271 --> 00:43:01,541

Okay.

:

00:43:01,841 --> 00:43:02,201

Nora Gibbs: Anyway,

:

00:43:02,861 --> 00:43:05,801

Meagan McGovern: um, anyway, I

also, we spent the whole summer,

:

00:43:05,801 --> 00:43:08,111

I had another boyfriend that, or

I didn't really have a boyfriend.

:

00:43:08,111 --> 00:43:10,061

Katie had a boyfriend and I.

:

00:43:11,051 --> 00:43:11,321

Lemme tell

:

00:43:11,321 --> 00:43:14,411

Nora Gibbs: you, Indian Lake, the town

we were living in was a very small town.

:

00:43:14,471 --> 00:43:17,501

And four blonde girls

came roaring into town.

:

00:43:17,861 --> 00:43:20,501

Megan and Katie and Morgan at

this point were all like to party.

:

00:43:20,531 --> 00:43:21,791

I'm like, goody shoes.

:

00:43:21,791 --> 00:43:22,841

Shoes in the background.

:

00:43:22,841 --> 00:43:24,401

Like, don't smoke around me.

:

00:43:24,401 --> 00:43:25,571

I don't wanna smell like smoke.

:

00:43:25,571 --> 00:43:28,631

And everybody's smoking and drinking

and the house was on a lake.

:

00:43:28,631 --> 00:43:30,041

It was the coolest little house.

:

00:43:30,041 --> 00:43:30,761

It was so fun.

:

00:43:31,031 --> 00:43:32,861

But we were incredibly poor in this house.

:

00:43:32,891 --> 00:43:35,381

And, but everybody in

Indian Lake was poor.

:

00:43:35,381 --> 00:43:35,531

But you

:

00:43:35,531 --> 00:43:37,091

Meagan McGovern: were, that

was okay in Indian Lake.

:

00:43:37,091 --> 00:43:37,211

It

:

00:43:37,211 --> 00:43:37,961

Nora Gibbs: was very sad though.

:

00:43:37,961 --> 00:43:39,341

Like there was, I, I'll never forget it.

:

00:43:39,341 --> 00:43:43,091

Like we, I had a friend at this point

who, Taryn's a good friend, Kerry, that

:

00:43:43,091 --> 00:43:47,261

I had met, and Kerry's dad worked for

the city or the county or whatever,

:

00:43:47,621 --> 00:43:50,801

and we hadn't paid our water bill.

:

00:43:51,131 --> 00:43:54,251

And we were getting close to

being evicted from this house

:

00:43:54,251 --> 00:43:55,571

for not paying rent or something.

:

00:43:55,991 --> 00:43:59,081

And her dad had to come

and turn off the water.

:

00:43:59,231 --> 00:44:00,221

So we didn't have any water.

:

00:44:00,221 --> 00:44:02,891

We didn't have running water for a lot

of the time we lived there, you know,

:

00:44:02,891 --> 00:44:06,581

and I remember him like with tears in

his eyes that he's turning off the water

:

00:44:06,881 --> 00:44:08,471

with this woman and four little girls.

:

00:44:08,936 --> 00:44:09,806

And it was heartbreaking.

:

00:44:09,926 --> 00:44:10,256

You know,

:

00:44:11,426 --> 00:44:15,776

Meagan McGovern: it was, there were a lot

of hard things about that house, but a lot

:

00:44:15,776 --> 00:44:17,036

of people in IND Indian Lake were poor.

:

00:44:17,216 --> 00:44:21,176

A lot of people didn't have good cars,

and there was a very big divide between

:

00:44:22,256 --> 00:44:25,796

the locals and the townies and people

who came up for the summer and had

:

00:44:25,796 --> 00:44:27,026

rented cabins and everything else.

:

00:44:27,386 --> 00:44:30,116

But the people who lived in Indian

Lake, nobody in Indian Lake has money.

:

00:44:30,236 --> 00:44:34,526

You can buy a house there right now

for a hundred thousand dollars and

:

00:44:35,396 --> 00:44:38,696

you, you're cold in the winter and

there's nothing to do in the winter.

:

00:44:38,696 --> 00:44:44,126

Literally, there are people that live

there that you don't see except in the

:

00:44:44,126 --> 00:44:48,026

winter, because the only way to get

to them if they're on the other side

:

00:44:48,026 --> 00:44:53,306

of a lake that's, you know, 10 miles,

20 miles long, and in the winter you

:

00:44:53,876 --> 00:44:56,576

just use your snowmobile and go across.

:

00:44:57,341 --> 00:44:59,861

And you see them all winter long

and you drink at the bars over there

:

00:44:59,861 --> 00:45:03,041

that, you know, in the winter and in

the summer you don't see them at all.

:

00:45:03,371 --> 00:45:04,391

And vice versa.

:

00:45:04,391 --> 00:45:06,941

There are other people you see just

because you go fishing, they, they

:

00:45:06,941 --> 00:45:10,301

have people that go ice fishing

and they use that for their food.

:

00:45:10,301 --> 00:45:15,131

There are people that hunt deer and moose

and bear because that's what they eat.

:

00:45:15,611 --> 00:45:19,331

There are people who grow gardens all

summer and then they can it, and they

:

00:45:19,601 --> 00:45:24,761

live off eight to $10,000 a year and

they live very well 'cause they hunt

:

00:45:24,761 --> 00:45:30,071

and fish and can, it's a very old

school way of life almost Appalachian.

:

00:45:30,071 --> 00:45:33,851

It's, and then obviously there are people

there who are, you know, online and

:

00:45:33,851 --> 00:45:36,011

doctors and retired and everything else.

:

00:45:36,881 --> 00:45:37,121

But,

:

00:45:37,571 --> 00:45:40,541

Nora Gibbs: well, and it's funny

because like this was the point where,

:

00:45:40,961 --> 00:45:45,311

you know, Taryn's mom, Taryn had a,

tn had a single mom and her mom, um.

:

00:45:46,331 --> 00:45:50,136

You know, loved me, wasn't a

super fan of you, but you And I

:

00:45:50,136 --> 00:45:53,381

was always Oh, I was your sister.

:

00:45:53,501 --> 00:45:53,711

Right.

:

00:45:53,831 --> 00:45:54,041

So,

:

00:45:54,881 --> 00:45:58,031

Meagan McGovern: you know, I mean,

these, she wasn't a, she wasn't,

:

00:45:58,031 --> 00:46:00,401

I, I've been up there a couple

times and she's, well, she's

:

00:46:00,401 --> 00:46:03,191

Nora Gibbs: now, it's 30 years

later, four years later, but Okay.

:

00:46:03,191 --> 00:46:03,821

Regardless.

:

00:46:04,301 --> 00:46:06,791

Meagan McGovern: Tim married, Tim,

married a very, very nice woman, and

:

00:46:06,791 --> 00:46:07,901

I'm still friends with him online.

:

00:46:08,081 --> 00:46:08,291

Very nice.

:

00:46:08,561 --> 00:46:09,071

All I'm saying, I'm not even

:

00:46:09,071 --> 00:46:09,761

Nora Gibbs: talking about that.

:

00:46:09,761 --> 00:46:13,571

I'm just saying her mom, you know,

worked very hard and she worked at,

:

00:46:13,571 --> 00:46:16,841

um, you know, she was waitress and

she worked really hard to support her.

:

00:46:17,201 --> 00:46:19,511

And I, this is the first

time that I remember and they

:

00:46:19,511 --> 00:46:20,381

lived in her trailer park.

:

00:46:20,381 --> 00:46:24,221

And the trailer park there was,

that's where a lot of people lived.

:

00:46:24,221 --> 00:46:27,131

It wasn't like a, you

know, I mean, in Texas,

:

00:46:27,431 --> 00:46:29,921

Meagan McGovern: a trailer park there

is not like a trailer park in Texas.

:

00:46:29,921 --> 00:46:30,161

It's

:

00:46:30,161 --> 00:46:30,551

Nora Gibbs: just a house.

:

00:46:30,551 --> 00:46:34,031

It was the first time I

remember really thinking like.

:

00:46:34,586 --> 00:46:35,876

Why can't mom just get a job?

:

00:46:35,876 --> 00:46:39,201

We could live in a trailer and it'd

be stable, you know, like when I was

:

00:46:39,201 --> 00:46:43,346

jealous of a trailer, living in a

trailer and living in, you know, a

:

00:46:43,346 --> 00:46:45,236

very small house, but it was stable.

:

00:46:45,236 --> 00:46:49,196

Like I would've rather lived

there and never had to move than,

:

00:46:50,006 --> 00:46:51,836

because Tim and Terran were stable.

:

00:46:51,896 --> 00:46:54,842

Meagan McGovern: They had a home

and they had bedroom Terra and she a

:

00:46:54,847 --> 00:46:55,316

Nora Gibbs: smart cookie.

:

00:46:55,316 --> 00:46:56,126

Tim's brilliant.

:

00:46:56,126 --> 00:46:58,436

I mean, Joe, their other little

brother, I mean, they're all just

:

00:46:58,436 --> 00:47:00,116

like really smart, incredible people.

:

00:47:00,476 --> 00:47:03,386

And they lived in a trailer

their whole life and it was fine.

:

00:47:03,686 --> 00:47:04,256

There was nothing

:

00:47:04,256 --> 00:47:04,886

Meagan McGovern: wrong with that.

:

00:47:04,976 --> 00:47:06,326

'cause that's what they could afford.

:

00:47:06,326 --> 00:47:08,486

And because their mother could

support them most, I know.

:

00:47:08,636 --> 00:47:12,236

And it was, and IMI, that was one of

the reasons, you know, I mean, this

:

00:47:12,236 --> 00:47:14,786

is gonna sound stupid, one of the

reasons I ended up dating him is 'cause

:

00:47:14,786 --> 00:47:20,366

he's this stable, nice, bright guy

who from a tiny town who's gonna go

:

00:47:20,366 --> 00:47:21,686

off and do great things in the world.

:

00:47:21,686 --> 00:47:26,156

And I'm like, you know, but yeah, we

came roaring in and kind of destroyed.

:

00:47:26,156 --> 00:47:26,396

Yeah.

:

00:47:28,336 --> 00:47:30,131

And we left a lot of

wreckage behind, right?

:

00:47:30,221 --> 00:47:30,671

Sorry.

:

00:47:30,671 --> 00:47:31,091

So,

:

00:47:31,121 --> 00:47:34,331

Nora Gibbs: okay, so let's get back

to the man and the business deal.

:

00:47:34,391 --> 00:47:34,421

Okay.

:

00:47:34,421 --> 00:47:35,051

I apologize

:

00:47:35,181 --> 00:47:40,221

. Meagan McGovern: So by the end of that

summer, it's clear that this businessman

:

00:47:40,221 --> 00:47:47,451

is dragging this out as long as possible

to give mom the least amount of money.

:

00:47:47,451 --> 00:47:49,761

That is fair.

:

00:47:51,051 --> 00:47:54,321

But he is not going to speed things

along just because she's broke, right?

:

00:47:55,611 --> 00:48:03,351

And so a couple times I would go to

the property with mom and we would

:

00:48:03,351 --> 00:48:06,351

walk along and she would say, all

right, this is what I'm gonna do.

:

00:48:06,351 --> 00:48:08,241

This is gonna be your eight

acres we're gonna set, well,

:

00:48:08,241 --> 00:48:09,501

he's gonna gimme 40 acres.

:

00:48:09,891 --> 00:48:13,971

And so 40 times five,

you know, is eight each.

:

00:48:13,971 --> 00:48:17,931

So each child is gonna get eight acres,

and I'm gonna put it in a trust that

:

00:48:17,931 --> 00:48:22,341

is in your name so that your husband

can never get it from you in a divorce.

:

00:48:22,461 --> 00:48:22,881

And that.

:

00:48:23,511 --> 00:48:24,591

Your kids can't get it from you.

:

00:48:24,591 --> 00:48:27,861

It's going to be something that

you own for the rest of your life

:

00:48:28,281 --> 00:48:30,261

that will be passed down to your

kids because they don't want you.

:

00:48:30,261 --> 00:48:30,501

That one.

:

00:48:30,501 --> 00:48:31,011

That'd be nice.

:

00:48:32,661 --> 00:48:37,011

And I picked out the lake where

my house was gonna be, and I

:

00:48:37,011 --> 00:48:40,401

picked out the cab, the, the

design of the cabin that I wanted.

:

00:48:40,851 --> 00:48:43,671

And I was gonna have a granite

fireplace because there was

:

00:48:43,671 --> 00:48:48,411

granite all over, not granite, um,

garnet, Garnet, garnet everywhere.

:

00:48:48,411 --> 00:48:49,641

And Garnet mines everywhere.

:

00:48:50,121 --> 00:48:53,211

And I was going to have huge garnet.

:

00:48:53,511 --> 00:48:56,391

There's rocks with garnet sticking

out of them everywhere there.

:

00:48:56,391 --> 00:48:58,971

And you can get that and you can have

it in the fireplace and it's gorgeous.

:

00:48:59,421 --> 00:49:02,961

And I had the layout in the design and

I knew what kind of porch I wanted,

:

00:49:02,991 --> 00:49:05,451

but I wanted to make sure it was

screened in so there were no mosquitoes.

:

00:49:07,551 --> 00:49:11,991

And I yearned for this more than

I had ever wanted anything in my

:

00:49:11,991 --> 00:49:17,781

life and could not wait for this

to happen because I had given up.

:

00:49:18,261 --> 00:49:21,261

At this point, I'm supposed to go back to

Sacred Heart University in a couple weeks.

:

00:49:22,341 --> 00:49:24,831

And I don't see it happening and

I don't know what's gonna happen.

:

00:49:24,831 --> 00:49:26,331

But for I would have a home base.

:

00:49:26,331 --> 00:49:28,701

You would have a home base, we

would've a place that all four

:

00:49:28,701 --> 00:49:29,811

of us could come back together.

:

00:49:29,811 --> 00:49:32,871

And no matter where mom went, no

matter what happened with anything,

:

00:49:33,441 --> 00:49:34,701

nobody could take this away from us.

:

00:49:34,701 --> 00:49:35,661

It was gonna be in a trust.

:

00:49:35,661 --> 00:49:35,721

Yeah.

:

00:49:36,201 --> 00:49:39,231

Even if I didn't build the house

till I was 30, I would have the land.

:

00:49:42,141 --> 00:49:45,831

But the first day of school came and

went, and we were still up there and we

:

00:49:45,831 --> 00:49:50,361

had lost the house in Connecticut because

the guy found out we were subleasing.

:

00:49:50,361 --> 00:49:50,541

Yeah.

:

00:49:50,541 --> 00:49:53,511

We were somebody and we

didn't have a right to do it.

:

00:49:54,021 --> 00:49:57,591

And we didn't have a way to go back

and get our stuff and we had to

:

00:49:57,591 --> 00:49:59,061

leave everything back there behind.

:

00:49:59,271 --> 00:50:00,771

And we hadn't paid for

the house in the lake.

:

00:50:02,061 --> 00:50:07,731

And so mom did a deal with the guy

and said, what if you give me $10,000

:

00:50:07,731 --> 00:50:09,201

cash now and I'll take less land?

:

00:50:10,431 --> 00:50:12,771

And he said, okay, I'll

give you $10,000 cash now.

:

00:50:13,761 --> 00:50:15,051

And gave her $10,000.

:

00:50:15,681 --> 00:50:19,101

And I think this happened two or

three times until it got to the point.

:

00:50:20,451 --> 00:50:27,201

That by Christmas there was nothing left

and all she had was $15,000 and no land.

:

00:50:27,201 --> 00:50:27,261

Yeah.

:

00:50:28,311 --> 00:50:30,291

And he was still gonna

buy it, but that was it.

:

00:50:30,291 --> 00:50:32,301

And there was no house,

no land and anything else.

:

00:50:33,501 --> 00:50:36,291

And I think that's where we just

ended up everything and where

:

00:50:36,291 --> 00:50:37,821

everything just kind of fell apart.

:

00:50:38,121 --> 00:50:41,001

And we knew at that point, I knew at

that point that I was leaving and I

:

00:50:41,001 --> 00:50:45,891

was never coming back or, and, and

that I couldn't do this anymore.

:

00:50:45,921 --> 00:50:46,671

Did sue her or how

:

00:50:46,671 --> 00:50:47,961

Nora Gibbs: did that end

with him, do you know?

:

00:50:50,541 --> 00:50:54,921

Meagan McGovern: I think as far as

I, okay, so here's what happened.

:

00:50:55,851 --> 00:50:58,821

I left, I went to Los Angeles.

:

00:50:59,091 --> 00:51:02,781

I couldn't take another minute

of this because it got to a

:

00:51:02,781 --> 00:51:04,701

point of absolute despair.

:

00:51:06,051 --> 00:51:06,561

And we moved, we moved to

:

00:51:06,561 --> 00:51:07,641

Nora Gibbs: a house in North River.

:

00:51:08,781 --> 00:51:09,351

Meagan McGovern: We had to move.

:

00:51:09,351 --> 00:51:10,761

We got evicted from the lake house.

:

00:51:10,971 --> 00:51:12,141

We moved to another house.

:

00:51:12,141 --> 00:51:15,501

I don't know how she convinced somebody

in the same town to another giant

:

00:51:15,501 --> 00:51:17,601

Nora Gibbs: house that we didn't

need across from our river.

:

00:51:17,601 --> 00:51:17,751

It was

:

00:51:17,751 --> 00:51:18,111

Meagan McGovern: beautiful.

:

00:51:18,111 --> 00:51:18,891

Nora Gibbs: I love that house.

:

00:51:19,536 --> 00:51:23,226

Meagan McGovern: She probably got a

payment from this guy to get that house.

:

00:51:24,906 --> 00:51:28,596

And my father sent me a plane ticket to

la I hadn't talked to my dad in years.

:

00:51:28,686 --> 00:51:31,116

I, I mean, it's hard.

:

00:51:31,116 --> 00:51:34,686

It's, it's easy to forget how

hard it was to talk to people.

:

00:51:35,076 --> 00:51:37,776

'cause you had to call long distance

and if you didn't have a house phone,

:

00:51:37,776 --> 00:51:40,416

you lived in a rental where you hadn't

had a phone put in, you might have

:

00:51:40,416 --> 00:51:41,856

to go to a payphone to call my dad.

:

00:51:41,856 --> 00:51:42,336

And my dad.

:

00:51:42,336 --> 00:51:45,756

You had to remember whether he was at work

and what time it was, or whether he was at

:

00:51:45,756 --> 00:51:46,866

home at night and couldn't call you back.

:

00:51:47,191 --> 00:51:47,556

He back, right.

:

00:51:47,556 --> 00:51:48,876

Like, he's not gonna

call, make a pay phone.

:

00:51:48,876 --> 00:51:49,026

Right.

:

00:51:49,956 --> 00:51:50,886

He couldn't call me back.

:

00:51:50,886 --> 00:51:52,176

So I would have to catch him.

:

00:51:53,466 --> 00:51:56,316

And then in order to have him send

me money for a plane ticket, he'd

:

00:51:56,316 --> 00:51:58,926

have to wire me the money and I'd

have to go to a place to get the

:

00:51:58,926 --> 00:52:00,726

money and I'd have to have the id.

:

00:52:00,726 --> 00:52:03,036

But he sent me money for a

plane ticket and I got a plane

:

00:52:03,036 --> 00:52:04,566

ticket to la I got there.

:

00:52:05,526 --> 00:52:09,696

There's a lot more story, but within

a day or two of getting there, I

:

00:52:09,696 --> 00:52:11,346

happened to be at my dad's house.

:

00:52:11,466 --> 00:52:13,656

He was at work and I picked up the phone.

:

00:52:14,796 --> 00:52:16,596

Somebody said, is Maureen there?

:

00:52:16,686 --> 00:52:18,906

And I thought that was really

weird 'cause this is my dad's house

:

00:52:18,906 --> 00:52:20,466

that'd been divorced 10 years.

:

00:52:20,886 --> 00:52:22,716

I said, no, but this is her daughter.

:

00:52:23,586 --> 00:52:25,416

Um, can I help you?

:

00:52:25,416 --> 00:52:28,296

And she said, oh, this is the only

other phone number I looked up in

:

00:52:28,296 --> 00:52:31,386

the phone book, I found his name

and I was looking for Maureen.

:

00:52:31,866 --> 00:52:33,876

I'm calling from sale of the century.

:

00:52:34,806 --> 00:52:36,126

I said, okay.

:

00:52:36,186 --> 00:52:36,996

That's kind of weird.

:

00:52:37,026 --> 00:52:39,036

I mean, yeah, she was on, she was there.

:

00:52:39,036 --> 00:52:40,476

She was on four or five years ago, right?

:

00:52:40,926 --> 00:52:46,716

And she said, yes, I'm calling because we

are doing a tournament of Champions and

:

00:52:46,716 --> 00:52:50,316

we're doing a Tournament of Champions in

Australia and we have our most popular

:

00:52:50,316 --> 00:52:56,406

winners and we want to give Maureen and

all expenses paid first class trip for

:

00:52:56,406 --> 00:53:01,596

two, for whoever her companion is, to

stay in lovely hotels and come and be on

:

00:53:01,656 --> 00:53:03,606

a tournament of champions in Australia.

:

00:53:04,026 --> 00:53:06,096

Do you think that she would

be interested in this?

:

00:53:08,796 --> 00:53:11,166

And I was.

:

00:53:11,751 --> 00:53:16,431

I, I was, I didn't even know what

to think, but I called mom, who

:

00:53:16,431 --> 00:53:22,191

was of course, super, super excited

about the whole thing and said, why

:

00:53:22,191 --> 00:53:24,021

don't you come home for Christmas?

:

00:53:24,081 --> 00:53:27,201

And she, she made all the plans and

she said, and I, and I was, this was

:

00:53:27,201 --> 00:53:30,951

like October, November, and she said,

why don't you come home for Christmas

:

00:53:30,951 --> 00:53:35,091

and we'll leave in January and I'll

take the two first class tickets

:

00:53:35,091 --> 00:53:36,411

and I'll trade them in for all five.

:

00:53:36,441 --> 00:53:38,871

For all five of us, and

we'll all go to Australia

:

00:53:38,871 --> 00:53:39,201

together.

:

00:53:40,941 --> 00:53:41,661

Meagan McGovern: And I said, okay.

:

00:53:41,691 --> 00:53:46,191

And that was the only thing

that would've gotten me home.

:

00:53:46,191 --> 00:53:48,231

I didn't know that was the

chance to go somewhere else.

:

00:53:48,231 --> 00:53:49,701

That was the only thing

that would've gotten.

:

00:53:49,746 --> 00:53:50,126

Oh, I

:

00:53:50,126 --> 00:53:50,726

never knew that.

:

00:53:51,066 --> 00:53:53,206

Meagan McGovern: And Oh,

you didn't know that?

:

00:53:53,206 --> 00:53:53,489

No, I didn't know that.

:

00:53:54,051 --> 00:53:54,621

I'm sorry.

:

00:53:56,031 --> 00:53:56,481

Yeah.

:

00:53:56,751 --> 00:53:59,091

That was the only way she convinced

me to leave LA and come home.

:

00:53:59,986 --> 00:54:02,376

And so.

:

00:54:03,411 --> 00:54:05,151

You guys are still living

in North Creek, right.

:

00:54:05,151 --> 00:54:08,061

But you guys get kicked out and it's

a long story and there's just, well

:

00:54:08,061 --> 00:54:09,021

we're still living in North Creek

:

00:54:09,021 --> 00:54:11,691

Nora Gibbs: for the time and

it's like coming up on Christmas.

:

00:54:11,691 --> 00:54:13,941

It's like November, October, November.

:

00:54:14,451 --> 00:54:19,041

And mom called us in and said, I just

got the best phone call of my life.

:

00:54:19,101 --> 00:54:20,091

We're going to Australia.

:

00:54:20,361 --> 00:54:23,661

Uh, she said, I cashed in my

two tickets for three business

:

00:54:23,811 --> 00:54:25,431

or for three coach tickets.

:

00:54:25,431 --> 00:54:27,711

So you and Morgan can

go to Australia with me.

:

00:54:29,391 --> 00:54:30,801

Meagan McGovern: No,

Katie and I had tickets.

:

00:54:30,801 --> 00:54:34,011

We were going, I didn't,

I got my passport.

:

00:54:34,011 --> 00:54:37,791

I spent two or three weeks in LA

setting it up and getting my passport

:

00:54:37,791 --> 00:54:39,411

and it was hard to get my passport.

:

00:54:39,411 --> 00:54:41,601

Like all sorts of things

that A DHD people can't do.

:

00:54:41,601 --> 00:54:44,271

Like I went down to the birth,

birth certificate office and

:

00:54:44,271 --> 00:54:46,431

I got my birth certificate and

I went to the passport office.

:

00:54:46,431 --> 00:54:47,121

I got my passport.

:

00:54:47,391 --> 00:54:48,621

I went and got my picture taken.

:

00:54:48,621 --> 00:54:52,401

I spent all, and dad had to help

me and I spent all my time there

:

00:54:52,401 --> 00:54:54,171

and I got my passport 'cause

we were going to Australia.

:

00:54:54,441 --> 00:54:54,501

Wow.

:

00:54:55,911 --> 00:54:57,621

Meagan McGovern: But

when I got off the plane.

:

00:54:58,851 --> 00:55:00,681

Back and I flew back to New York.

:

00:55:00,681 --> 00:55:04,701

I'd been in in LA six or eight weeks

and I'd talked to my dad and had all

:

00:55:04,701 --> 00:55:08,841

sorts of stuff going on, and I said

I was only going back for this trip

:

00:55:08,841 --> 00:55:10,011

and then I'd figure out my life.

:

00:55:10,401 --> 00:55:14,991

This was the first semester I'd ever

not been in college, so I was lost, but

:

00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:21,801

I got off the plane and Katie picked me

up in Albany and we drove up back to the

:

00:55:21,801 --> 00:55:27,171

Adirondacks and we got pulled over and

the cop said, I've been looking for you.

:

00:55:27,171 --> 00:55:28,611

And I said, what the hell

are you talking about?

:

00:55:28,611 --> 00:55:31,401

He said, you've had bad checks

on uh uh, on your account the

:

00:55:31,401 --> 00:55:32,481

whole time you've been gone.

:

00:55:32,691 --> 00:55:34,851

We've been waiting for you to come

back and you're going to jail.

:

00:55:36,741 --> 00:55:38,511

Like before I had even gotten home.

:

00:55:38,931 --> 00:55:38,991

Wow.

:

00:55:38,991 --> 00:55:42,501

Mom had written bad checks on my checking

account the entire time I was in Los

:

00:55:42,501 --> 00:55:49,551

Angeles and I was in jail, and that's

why I didn't go to Australia because

:

00:55:49,551 --> 00:55:53,421

I got out of jail, but I had the trial

or the whatever, I couldn't leave

:

00:55:53,841 --> 00:55:56,151

because otherwise I'd be arrested again.

:

00:55:57,536 --> 00:55:58,251

And so I had to

:

00:55:58,251 --> 00:55:58,461

Nora Gibbs: stay.

:

00:55:58,461 --> 00:56:02,631

That is a insane way that I didn't know

anything about, but I think that's a

:

00:56:02,631 --> 00:56:04,611

great way to kind of wrap up this episode.

:

00:56:04,611 --> 00:56:05,091

I think we've been

:

00:56:06,681 --> 00:56:07,731

Meagan McGovern: Yeah, it's, it's, yeah.

:

00:56:07,881 --> 00:56:10,911

So, and the reason, and Katie didn't

go because she had her dog and

:

00:56:10,911 --> 00:56:12,081

a boyfriend and didn't wanna go.

:

00:56:12,081 --> 00:56:13,521

And if I wasn't going, she wasn't going.

:

00:56:13,526 --> 00:56:15,516

And she was kind of over the whole mom.

:

00:56:15,516 --> 00:56:15,636

Wow.

:

00:56:15,736 --> 00:56:15,956

Too.

:

00:56:15,956 --> 00:56:15,957

Wow.

:

00:56:16,371 --> 00:56:23,271

But so, so to, I mean, to wrap up,

Katie, mom got us a house with the

:

00:56:23,271 --> 00:56:27,891

last 15 to thousand dollars from

this guy and she wrapped up the whole

:

00:56:27,891 --> 00:56:33,261

deal with this businessman and she

gave me and Katie $10,000 or $15,000,

:

00:56:34,731 --> 00:56:36,501

got a down payment on another house.

:

00:56:36,501 --> 00:56:40,941

'cause we were out of all of this in,

in another town and said, you finish up

:

00:56:40,941 --> 00:56:45,651

all the business dealings with this guy,

take the $15,000 and pay off all the bad

:

00:56:45,651 --> 00:56:47,361

checks and nobody else gets arrested.

:

00:56:47,691 --> 00:56:51,681

And I'm going to Australia with Morgan

and nor, and I'll be back in, what

:

00:56:51,681 --> 00:56:53,751

was it, a month, six weeks, two weeks?

:

00:56:53,751 --> 00:56:54,501

I don't supposed.

:

00:56:56,886 --> 00:56:59,126

I think you were supposed to be

gone three weeks and you were not.

:

00:56:59,126 --> 00:56:59,606

You were not.

:

00:56:59,786 --> 00:57:00,006

So,

:

00:57:00,171 --> 00:57:03,261

Nora Gibbs: and I think that the end

of the Adirondacks in the beginning

:

00:57:03,261 --> 00:57:05,301

of Australia is for the next episode.

:

00:57:05,301 --> 00:57:07,281

'cause there's a little more in

the Adirondacks in this house.

:

00:57:07,776 --> 00:57:08,246

There is.

:

00:57:08,306 --> 00:57:11,811

Meagan McGovern: Um, there is,

but I mean, that's, that's crazy.

:

00:57:12,351 --> 00:57:15,831

I mean, so I left the Adirondacks,

but I wasn't able to really leave.

:

00:57:15,831 --> 00:57:17,461

I mean, that was, it was like,

it was all I know that I had

:

00:57:17,461 --> 00:57:17,901

Nora Gibbs: no idea.

:

00:57:17,901 --> 00:57:19,431

I never knew you were

supposed to come with us.

:

00:57:19,821 --> 00:57:21,081

I went kicking and screaming.

:

00:57:21,081 --> 00:57:21,801

I didn't wanna go.

:

00:57:21,831 --> 00:57:25,521

'cause I loved, I loved ending being

like, I had the best time of my life.

:

00:57:25,521 --> 00:57:28,191

There was a boy, I had a crush on

there, you know, I had friends.

:

00:57:28,191 --> 00:57:30,561

I was playing soccer, I

was playing volleyball.

:

00:57:30,561 --> 00:57:33,381

I was playing any sport that would

let me not come home, you know?

:

00:57:33,471 --> 00:57:33,981

I loved it,

:

00:57:35,361 --> 00:57:35,631

Meagan McGovern: man.

:

00:57:35,631 --> 00:57:36,501

I couldn't wait to get outta there.

:

00:57:36,501 --> 00:57:36,657

I loved it

:

00:57:36,662 --> 00:57:36,981

Nora Gibbs: all.

:

00:57:38,961 --> 00:57:39,081

Okay.

:

00:57:39,081 --> 00:57:39,471

Alright.

:

00:57:39,591 --> 00:57:42,411

Well, well, it's so, so exciting to me.

:

00:57:42,411 --> 00:57:45,081

It's like so surprising when you

say something that I'm like, holy

:

00:57:45,081 --> 00:57:46,731

shit, I had no idea that happened.

:

00:57:48,081 --> 00:57:49,461

Meagan McGovern: That's,

that's really funny.

:

00:57:49,941 --> 00:57:55,371

I don't, I don't know why, why else

would I have been stuck behind in Bolton?

:

00:57:55,791 --> 00:57:56,391

Landing.

:

00:57:56,661 --> 00:57:57,381

Nora Gibbs: I didn't know.

:

00:57:57,381 --> 00:57:58,491

I didn't know why you stayed.

:

00:57:58,491 --> 00:58:00,801

I, you know, I mean, maybe that's

why we're doing a podcast for

:

00:58:00,801 --> 00:58:02,271

my own clarity on your life.

:

00:58:03,201 --> 00:58:03,261

Meagan McGovern: Yeah.

:

00:58:03,261 --> 00:58:03,921

It's really funny.

:

00:58:04,566 --> 00:58:05,056

Alright.

:

00:58:05,061 --> 00:58:05,481

Alright.

:

00:58:05,481 --> 00:58:09,921

Well so after all that, thank you

for listening to Forever Wild.

:

00:58:10,071 --> 00:58:12,291

Nora Gibbs: If you are a

flabbergasted by this episode like

:

00:58:12,291 --> 00:58:15,141

I am, or if you've enjoyed this

episode, you know, let us know.

:

00:58:15,141 --> 00:58:18,081

And I know we went a little long

on this, but there's a lot of

:

00:58:18,081 --> 00:58:19,521

weird stuff that I didn't know.

:

00:58:19,521 --> 00:58:21,861

So I had a lot of questions on this one.

:

00:58:22,041 --> 00:58:24,501

But if you've enjoyed it, you

know, leave us a review, find

:

00:58:24,501 --> 00:58:27,531

Megan on Facebook and share it with

somebody who loves a good story.

:

00:58:29,001 --> 00:58:32,001

Meagan McGovern: Yeah, my friend Chris

the other day said, we're saving $150

:

00:58:32,001 --> 00:58:33,651

each every episode by not doing therapy.

:

00:58:33,741 --> 00:58:34,311

Oh, that's

:

00:58:34,521 --> 00:58:35,091

Nora Gibbs: so smart.

:

00:58:35,121 --> 00:58:35,901

That's actually true.

:

00:58:36,411 --> 00:58:38,841

Meagan McGovern: I know we

would love to hear from you.

:

00:58:38,901 --> 00:58:42,891

So send us your questions, thoughts,

um, ideas for what to talk about next

:

00:58:42,891 --> 00:58:43,851

and what you'd like to hear more about.

:

00:58:43,911 --> 00:58:45,471

Nora Gibbs: Until next time, stay wild.

:

00:58:46,971 --> 00:58:47,602

Meagan McGovern: Bye bye.

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About the Podcast

Forever Wild
Stories from the McGovern Girls
Forever Wild is a memoir podcast about four sisters, a con artist mother, and a childhood spent on the run. From mafia bars to game shows, mental hospitals to Australia, it’s a story of survival, chaos, and the search for home. Hosted by sisters Meagan McGovern and Nora Gibbs, this deeply personal series blends dark humor, nostalgia, and raw honesty in a journey you won’t forget.

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Meagan McGovern